98mm does use a thinner o-ring on some sleeves. It looks like there was way too much sealant on the elephant ear o-ring. I would think the sleeve o-ring melted once it failed. You can see carbon on the case where it was blowing into the coolant. Have seen a few guys not have the head studs all the way down into the case. Doesn't look like that on yours though. Another thing to watch is the radius in the case and the radius on the sleeve. Some cases its not cleaned up well and some sleeves don't have enough radius to allow the sleeve to fit down all the way into the case. What happens is you end up with a false torque. Once motor runs for a bit sleeve settles then leaks. I posted some pics somewhere showing this.
http://www.cannondaleriders.com/forums/ind...showtopic=22142
Blown O-ring
QUOTE (cannondale27 @ Apr 13 2009, 04:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
98mm does use a thinner o-ring on some sleeves.It looks like there was way to much sealant on the elephant ear o-ring.I would think the sleeve o-ring melted once it failed.You can see carbon on the case where it was blowing into the coolant.Have seen a few guys not have the head studs all the way down into the case.Doesnt look like that on yours though.Another thing to watch is the radius in the case and the radius on the sleeve.Some cases its not cleaned up well and some sleeves dont have enough radius to allow the sleeve to fit down all the way into the case.What happens is you end up with a false torque.Once motor runs for a bit sleeve settles then leaks.I posted some pics somewhere showing this.
http://www.cannondaleriders.com/forums/ind...showtopic=22142
http://www.cannondaleriders.com/forums/ind...showtopic=22142
The studs do appear to be in far enough.
If I shave off the head, what kind of issues might I encounter? Hopefully the cam cover will still fit with out drilling out any holes.
How much effect will it have on the timing chain?
What else?
QUOTE (Kuma @ Apr 13 2009, 10:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The studs do appear to be in far enough.
If I shave off the head, what kind of issues might I encounter? Hopefully the cam cover will still fit with out drilling out any holes.
How much effect will it have on the timing chain?
What else?
If I shave off the head, what kind of issues might I encounter? Hopefully the cam cover will still fit with out drilling out any holes.
How much effect will it have on the timing chain?
What else?
Everything should still bolt up fine,its more of a clean up job it all depends on how deep the groves are. I think it will affect timing a little,as with all motors degreeing cams should be a given if your trying to get maximum power out of it. But seeing how some dale cams are out to lunch as is it's at least worth seeing what there set at.
I did talk to Tim today he said its a very rare thing to have happen, most times a stud isn't down all the way. Also no RVT on that O-ring. He has seen a case or two where the sleeve sat a little higher so that would on cause this problem. I think he might be giving you a call Bill if he can find your number.
QUOTE (claas900 @ Apr 13 2009, 10:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Everything should still bolt up fine,its more of a clean up job it all depends on how deep the groves are. I think it will affect timing a little,as with all motors degreeing cams should be a given if your trying to get maxim power out of it. But seeing how some dale cams are out to lunch as is it's at least wroth seeing what there set at.
I did talk to Tim today he said its a very rare thing to have happen,most times a stud isn't down all the way. Also no RVT on that O-ring. He has seen a case or two where the sleeve sat a little higher so that would on cause this problem. I think he might be giving you a call Bill if he can find your number.
I did talk to Tim today he said its a very rare thing to have happen,most times a stud isn't down all the way. Also no RVT on that O-ring. He has seen a case or two where the sleeve sat a little higher so that would on cause this problem. I think he might be giving you a call Bill if he can find your number.
If the sleeve sat a little high, wouldn't that help seal that oring and cause a problem with the outer oring? just thinking out loud.
I'd PM you my number to give to Tim but the PM function is still not working.
QUOTE (Kuma @ Apr 13 2009, 11:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If the sleeve sat a little high, wouldn't that help seal that oring and cause a problem with the outer oring? just thinking out loud.
I'd PM you my number to give to Tim but the PM function is still not working.
I'd PM you my number to give to Tim but the PM function is still not working.
Your right, I meant to say not cause this problem. Just give Tim a call, he knows about it and I'm sure he's thought about it some more.
Looking for some information on the proper amount of cylinder crush.
I measured the hieght from the top of the cylinder to the base of the step, measured 1.728" - 1.729"
Measured the case from the top, head mounting surface to the step that the cylinder sits and got the same measurements. I heard that the cylinder should sit about 0.004" -0.005" higher. It appears that I have zero crush if someone has some cylinders that they can measure I'd like to know if I'm missing the required crush. I could not find the information in the C'dale documents.
I measured the hieght from the top of the cylinder to the base of the step, measured 1.728" - 1.729"
Measured the case from the top, head mounting surface to the step that the cylinder sits and got the same measurements. I heard that the cylinder should sit about 0.004" -0.005" higher. It appears that I have zero crush if someone has some cylinders that they can measure I'd like to know if I'm missing the required crush. I could not find the information in the C'dale documents.
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cannondale27
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- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
QUOTE (cannondale27 @ Apr 16 2009, 04:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I measured one a while back.Looking for pic of it.
Steve, do you have a measurement from the top of the cylinder to the base, where it seats in the case?
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Canniboomer
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Here are dimensions from a few sleeves that are close by to my desk:
1.733" LA Steel Sleeve, used (uses thin O-ring version)
1.733" LA Steel Sleeve, used (uses thin O-ring version)
1.732" OEM Aluminum Sleeve, new
1.730" OEM Alumimum Sleeve, used
In your situtation, it seems that using some silicone under the bottom lip may be required. For normal practice, we don't add silicone down there,....... since it has been known to cause over-compression of the Sleeve in some installations.....But your measurements indicate a need for more sealing cushion. Also, I can fix you up with a special-order Higher Durometer O-ring. It will cost less actually. I have some on order for stock -- they are 20% stiffer Viton, and could work better with your particular sleeve-case combo.
Is your sleeve a bored-out Aluminum one?
1.733" LA Steel Sleeve, used (uses thin O-ring version)
1.733" LA Steel Sleeve, used (uses thin O-ring version)
1.732" OEM Aluminum Sleeve, new
1.730" OEM Alumimum Sleeve, used
In your situtation, it seems that using some silicone under the bottom lip may be required. For normal practice, we don't add silicone down there,....... since it has been known to cause over-compression of the Sleeve in some installations.....But your measurements indicate a need for more sealing cushion. Also, I can fix you up with a special-order Higher Durometer O-ring. It will cost less actually. I have some on order for stock -- they are 20% stiffer Viton, and could work better with your particular sleeve-case combo.
Is your sleeve a bored-out Aluminum one?