Spinning flywheels?

Message

thedeatons · #21 Post by **thedeatons** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:48 pm

I see what you mean... Although hopefully you can see what I mean. Vibration or not the engine still goes, and goes really fast actually. That is why I said weakest link in that quad, simply because it is the only part ruining the day.

timbomoose · #22 Post by **timbomoose** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:36 pm

There's no doubt that dune riders spin them 4x as often as other riders and that may even be a conservative estimate. Most of the calls over the years for flywheel spinning problems came from dune riders. Most likely a big part of it from the extra heat built up in the motor from the excessive and constant load. Aluminum expands 3x the rate of steel and with our flywheel design heat is a bad thing. Really for most riders it isn't much of an issue. I personnaly have only spun 2 over the years with hundreds of hrs one was in the dunes go figure. Most of my riding though is trail riding. The best solution is Wayne's 1 piece design.

cannondale27 · #23 Post by **cannondale27** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:47 pm

Cdale55 has also spun his share on the Ice. When you have studded tires it is huge amounts of traction. Kind of like paddles in sand. The inertia thing. He will be doing the testing of the flywheel Wayne sends me unless Wistech offers his. Otherwise I will send it to class900 if Wayne doesnt get one to him first. Derno if your done riding how about sending it to one of the guys out west who are still riding?

jesshamner · #24 Post by **jesshamner** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:03 pm

QUOTE (thedeatons @ Dec 13 2007, 11:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I see what you mean... Although hopefully you can see what I mean. Vibration or not the engine still goes, and goes really fast actually. That is why I said weakest link in that quad, simply because it is the only part ruining the day.

I guess I misunderstood your focus then. Sorry about that.

The torque and in high traction environments definitely make sense. I don't know about heat though. Engine temps vary a little but should be in the same ball park. And if we are talking about atmospheric temps then I don't think that is a valid statement if cdale55 is spinning flywheels when the atmospheric temp is near or below freezing.

cannondale27 · #25 Post by **cannondale27** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:41 pm

Motors get really hot when Iceracing. Have seen many overheat even in freezing weather. They also cool down really fast like in two or three minutes frame is cold to touch. Maybe the extreme heat cycling is a factor. Figure the aluminum and steel both expand and shrink at different rates just like a aluminum piston in a cast Iron bore. They move alot. Clearance for aluminum/iron is at least .003 when ally/ally(nikasil) can be as tight as .001. Do that .002 a diff a couple times and eventually you end up with slop in the flywheel and spinning. I could see that. Like said best to start over and do it right.

cdsracer · #26 Post by **cdsracer** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:05 pm

I run Evans in my quad, the hottest it got on the last sand trip (according to the Vapor) was 173 degrees at the top of a hillclimb. I think it was about 45 degrees outside. I'm sure its gotten hotter than that before, but that is the hottest I've seen since installing the Vapor and running it in the winter.

The only other difference I see between the quads is that mine gets the most run time. It goes on EVERY ride, it never sits at camp. It often makes trip back to camp to get gas when someone has run out, tools to fix a broken something, or a tow strap to take someone back. It is only one of three that sees time going through whoops at high speeds and going off of jumps in 4th and 5th gear. So, of all the quads in our group, it probably receives the highest amount of wear. This would certainly lead to the flywheel spinning more often than the others in our group.

wistech · #27 Post by **wistech** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:28 pm

After cutting apart and examining so many flywheels I am absolutly convinced its an utterly weak design and needs to be reinforced or replaced to be assured of a failure free flywheel. I think you guys who have all these theories need to get your hands dirty and rip one apart yourself. The problem with the stockers will be abundantly clear. Its to much tooth stress on too little material and no metal bond. They had problems with these from day one and even the stator manufacturer was customizing stockers when they were testing stators trying to keep them from spinning.

jesshamner · #28 Post by **jesshamner** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:27 pm

I think we all undertand that they need to be redesigned and we thank Wayne for doing that. But for me its fun to talk about what exactly is wrong and why it happens to some people and doesn't happen to others.

cannondale27 · #29 Post by **cannondale27** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:00 pm

Right. It's always best to understand the problem. We still arent 100% sure that a different issue with motor isn't contributing to the failures. Would like to know if there is a issue other than the crappy flywheel design.

thedeatons · #30 Post by **thedeatons** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:32 am

Sheesh... Okay, regardless of another problem, whether it is vibration or sloppy bearings or whatever, if flywheel is stopping ride, and has been for over a year's worth of riding now, then I think it is safe to say that is the weak link. Once the weak link is fixed, then we can find the next one. As mentioned, engine runs just fine when a new flywheel is installed, so regardless, the flywheels stink. Just my .02.... I'm not yelling, just saying who cares right now if the flywheel keeps breaking. Get a non-breakable one and then we will look for the next problem......