Steve... the problem is the "my way is the only way to do things" attitude that you bring with your posts. No one here, including me, doubts your knowledge of these motors or your ability to work on them, but you see things as this is how it has to be. I agree with Mike that he shouldn't have torn down a good running motor that had no indication of problems. Indications could be rattles, knocks, pings, loss of power, or overheating.... etc. He apparently never had any of these problems.
Let's look at the facts. If he tears it down and rebuilds it he is going to rebuild his crank, maybe buy a piston and sleeve, a gasket set, rework the head, locktight the bolts, flush the frame, put on an aluminum valve cover, etc....
If he runs it till he has a problem and then rebuilds it, he is going to rebuild his crank, maybe buy a piston and sleeve, a gasket set, rework the head, locktight the bolts, flush the frame, put on an aluminum valve cover, etc....
The price of repair may very a several hundred dollars, but that isn't the issue with alot of people. I personally will replace every worn out or broke part in my engine when I rebuild it, but I wouldn't tear it down and do it before I had some indication that it needed it. My first Cannondale motor went over 200 hundred hours without a rebuild and it started loosing power and making an unfimiliar noise a few days before it went.
I have hardly ever seen an engine, yet, that failed without giving some indication that there was a problem. I have seen plenty of people ignore the indicators and then blow a motor up.
As far as your suggestion about Timbo not selling his rods to people that don't follow your rebuild philosophy, that would be foolish and that is a word that I wouldn't characterize Tim (or you either) as being.
300 hr motor
'27
No one including me is questioning your ability or what you have seen on your tear downs. By the same token you don't believe that any motor could last 300 hrs than you also cannot believe that they only had 10 hrs on them. No hour meters, so you have to take what you are told in each case. They could have told you 25 hours and actually been over 100, who knows. It has to go both ways, just like I don't accept carbon dating for the "Shroud of Toren".
You continually read things into peoples post that do not exist. You told Delaware
You than claim that people are ungrateful for Timbo doing cranks and rods, how do you make these connections that don't exist? Of course people are grateful for Timbos work and R&D as they are of yours (that is a compliment).
You than offer Speed 450mx a tear down of his crank as long as it's marked so no "Funny Business", you are implying that he would do something dishonest.
I'll be the first to admit that I don't have your knowledge of Cannondale motors (this is a compliment), but even JWHEAT claims 200hrs before it started making a noise.
Under the don't fix it unless it broke, I think everyone is aware that a critical failure cost more than preventive maintenance. He wasn't having issues, he got a good one, built on Tuesday, whatever, he rode it hard and it lasted. Big deal. This does not mean our "Heads are in the sand".
Smitty
Switching to platform shoes.
No one including me is questioning your ability or what you have seen on your tear downs. By the same token you don't believe that any motor could last 300 hrs than you also cannot believe that they only had 10 hrs on them. No hour meters, so you have to take what you are told in each case. They could have told you 25 hours and actually been over 100, who knows. It has to go both ways, just like I don't accept carbon dating for the "Shroud of Toren".
You continually read things into peoples post that do not exist. You told Delaware
QUOTE
You had at least 3 cannondales so they got rotated usage wise. Wouldn't expect to have to do much at all for at least three years in that situation.
You than claim that people are ungrateful for Timbo doing cranks and rods, how do you make these connections that don't exist? Of course people are grateful for Timbos work and R&D as they are of yours (that is a compliment).
You than offer Speed 450mx a tear down of his crank as long as it's marked so no "Funny Business", you are implying that he would do something dishonest.
I'll be the first to admit that I don't have your knowledge of Cannondale motors (this is a compliment), but even JWHEAT claims 200hrs before it started making a noise.
Under the don't fix it unless it broke, I think everyone is aware that a critical failure cost more than preventive maintenance. He wasn't having issues, he got a good one, built on Tuesday, whatever, he rode it hard and it lasted. Big deal. This does not mean our "Heads are in the sand".
Smitty
Switching to platform shoes.
I think the challenge part was directed at me. I didn't "challenge" him for the group just offered that as a way to get together in a friendly way and go at it. Competition doesn't have to be confrontation and that wasn't my intent D152. Guys are always racing at the group ride. It's human nature to compete and there is nothing wrong with it and people do not have to take it so personally.
I also think the "funny business" part, Steve was referring to the fact that it be marked before it got to him so he wouldn't be accused of switching the parts in favor of his opinion, not the other way around.
I also think the "funny business" part, Steve was referring to the fact that it be marked before it got to him so he wouldn't be accused of switching the parts in favor of his opinion, not the other way around.
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cannondale27
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
Let me make it clear.YOU CANNOT REBUILD A CRANK WITH THAT MANY HOURS!There get it.It seems to me.That when someone does take a HUGE chance and runs factory motor even if it survives till first tear down THAT is the point people get out part them out etc.Now Timbomoose and others have done us all a huge favor by keeping costs within a reasonable range to get even mangled Ripsawed cranks and rods to us.I am not speaking for Timbo but use your head.Its not going to be cheap forever.There are much easier ways to make money you know.So people will be given a choice.Spending around $1500 just to get motor up to par on a 6year old quad or buying something else that even has more power than a stock rebuild.
Smitty I dont understand what you posted.I have stated many times all three of my factory done motors almost lasted a year.10hrs would be almost a sure thing.30hrs seems to be cutoff point where Ripsaw has sunk its teeth into rod but varies.
The funny business thing was so I dont get accused of switching parts.He would mark crank not me.Get it?
It lasted.Really?Have we seen the crank yet?Or is it just expected that if Timbo does the crank and finds both halves and the rod useless that he will just come up with the parts?Because thats what he does ALOT.
When I said your heads are in sand I meant you arent seeing the whole picture.Think I would be so passionate about this if it were just motors involved?
Jwheat very rarely do I post something without having heard many opinions on a issue my way is the only way has alot of others behind it.It obvious we will all never agree on this.Just never realized there were so many who would actually run a factory motor.So right there I admit I was wrong.When I am in a losing situation I usually do the natural thing and try to find humor in it.Guess what I am laughing
The End.
Smitty I dont understand what you posted.I have stated many times all three of my factory done motors almost lasted a year.10hrs would be almost a sure thing.30hrs seems to be cutoff point where Ripsaw has sunk its teeth into rod but varies.
The funny business thing was so I dont get accused of switching parts.He would mark crank not me.Get it?
It lasted.Really?Have we seen the crank yet?Or is it just expected that if Timbo does the crank and finds both halves and the rod useless that he will just come up with the parts?Because thats what he does ALOT.
When I said your heads are in sand I meant you arent seeing the whole picture.Think I would be so passionate about this if it were just motors involved?
Jwheat very rarely do I post something without having heard many opinions on a issue my way is the only way has alot of others behind it.It obvious we will all never agree on this.Just never realized there were so many who would actually run a factory motor.So right there I admit I was wrong.When I am in a losing situation I usually do the natural thing and try to find humor in it.Guess what I am laughing
The End.Here is the deal, most of these bikes are indeed used when purchased. Correct? So, do you buy the bike used and plan to tear it apart? If you are C27, than yes. Does that make him wrong? NO
What if you buy the bike, as stated above, and have no more money, so you ride it, take care of it, and get 2 seasongs out of it? Are you wrong? IMO: NO. In C27's: YES. These are only opinions. However in this instance, you bought it used, and therefore according to the experts the crank already is beyond repair. So, after the 2 seasons of riding, nothing failed and you decide to tear it apart. Guess what? The crank will cost you the same exact amount (execpt for inflation cost) as it would have cost you when you had NO money to get it updated.
The key to these motors IMO is learn them, and keep your ears open. I tore a D152 motor apart once, expecting the worst. It was making a noise and he finished his race, shut it down, and pulled the engine. He expected the crank or valve. It turned out to be a timing chain guide stud broken, which let the cam chain push it where it was touching a gear. We replaced the stud, guide, and chain, and he went back racing. That was ahole lot cheaper than a full rebuild that was un-neccesary.
Steve: I honestly do not see the point of having Tim not buid rods. That makes NO sense. Now you are wanting to punish any cannondale owner who does not bow down to your way of thinking. Maybe everyone should buy nothing but new cranks, then Tim will have noone to sell his rods to. Hmmm, supply and demand. Tim builds a better rod than factory, so it is considered an upgrade.
Steve: your opinion is not wrong, however it is only 1 man's opinion, and not the gospel, you should not force it down everyone's throat.
450mx, if your crank is still out, and you want to chance it: send it to tim and I'll pay for the Z-bearing. Install it on your worn pin and let's check it and see how long it will last.
What if you buy the bike, as stated above, and have no more money, so you ride it, take care of it, and get 2 seasongs out of it? Are you wrong? IMO: NO. In C27's: YES. These are only opinions. However in this instance, you bought it used, and therefore according to the experts the crank already is beyond repair. So, after the 2 seasons of riding, nothing failed and you decide to tear it apart. Guess what? The crank will cost you the same exact amount (execpt for inflation cost) as it would have cost you when you had NO money to get it updated.
The key to these motors IMO is learn them, and keep your ears open. I tore a D152 motor apart once, expecting the worst. It was making a noise and he finished his race, shut it down, and pulled the engine. He expected the crank or valve. It turned out to be a timing chain guide stud broken, which let the cam chain push it where it was touching a gear. We replaced the stud, guide, and chain, and he went back racing. That was ahole lot cheaper than a full rebuild that was un-neccesary.
Steve: I honestly do not see the point of having Tim not buid rods. That makes NO sense. Now you are wanting to punish any cannondale owner who does not bow down to your way of thinking. Maybe everyone should buy nothing but new cranks, then Tim will have noone to sell his rods to. Hmmm, supply and demand. Tim builds a better rod than factory, so it is considered an upgrade.
Steve: your opinion is not wrong, however it is only 1 man's opinion, and not the gospel, you should not force it down everyone's throat.
450mx, if your crank is still out, and you want to chance it: send it to tim and I'll pay for the Z-bearing. Install it on your worn pin and let's check it and see how long it will last.
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cannondale27
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
Haydog once again you see what you want to see in my post and dont really comprehend alot of what I said.Timbo wouldnt HAVE to build rods if people listened to advice to do it right away.Rod is what goes first.Not the pin.Rod also is most time consuming to make.There is nothing wrong with stock rods.Just the Ripsaw bearing.
Of course if money is issue and there is none well what can you do you just ride it.
Glad you posted since I remember you saying you ran a hour meter on your KTM.Care to share how many hours you put on in a full season?
Of course if money is issue and there is none well what can you do you just ride it.
Glad you posted since I remember you saying you ran a hour meter on your KTM.Care to share how many hours you put on in a full season?
QUOTE (haydug @ Feb 15 2007, 11:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Here is the deal, most of these bikes are indeed used when purchased. Correct? So, do you buy the bike used and plan to tear it apart?
If you are racing and have sponsors, you owe it to them to tear it down. Now if you are just a trail rider or whatever, hey run it into the ground. You paid for it.....set on fire and piss on it for all we care. But when you start involving someone else's lively hood into your recreation you owe it to them to make sure you show up at every race. Competing with a quad that you don't know what the condition of the internals are is just bad business. What do you tell your sponsors when your motor lets go and you can't get it back together in time for the next race?
If you tore into prior to the start of the season, then you made every effort to put a good foot forward for the season. If you say.........ah, it's good enough, it runs............well, you don't deserve the sponsors you have as there is another guy busting his balls to make sure everything is the best he can make it.
Ask me what I did with ****** quad last year when I got it. Didn't even start it. Dropped the motor to see what was what. Guess what...............crank was starting to go.
"When I said your heads are in sand I meant you arent seeing the whole picture.Think I would be so passionate about this if it were just motors involved?"
Hey what's this mean!! LOL I hope nobody has their head up my arse,, LOL,,,I'm checking right now actually w/ my mirror,, Can't seem to see anybody crawling around, but my arse sure hurts. Maybe it's a motor jammed in there!! Must of been the Glamis ride. Okay,,, carry on..
Hey what's this mean!! LOL I hope nobody has their head up my arse,, LOL,,,I'm checking right now actually w/ my mirror,, Can't seem to see anybody crawling around, but my arse sure hurts. Maybe it's a motor jammed in there!! Must of been the Glamis ride. Okay,,, carry on..
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speed 450mx
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
Man this is getting really funny now Ok I have Five dales and work on five others all of the other 5 I Have all up dates 2 have falicon & 2 have stock with Z bearings this one was stock had no metal in the oil and very little shaveings in oil. And it had just know starting lossing any power but it would still keep up all the 450. The five I work on all know the problems but dont want to drop there motors for no reason even know they know the problems. Your right the crank might be junk but then agin it was junk after 20 hrs. So what does it matter. 27 I have never said anything about you knowledge of these motors and respect you opion but you dont have to bash everyone that post something that you dont belive in. I am send it to a third party that has nothing to do with this so if they send it back to me saying that it is junk then thats that the end.
Ok I have Five dales and work on five others all of the other 5 I Have all up dates 2 have falicon & 2 have stock with Z bearings this one was stock had no metal in the oil and very little shaveings in oil. And it had just know starting lossing any power but it would still keep up all the 450. The five I work on all know the problems but dont want to drop there motors for no reason even know they know the problems. Your right the crank might be junk but then agin it was junk after 20 hrs. So what does it matter. 27 I have never said anything about you knowledge of these motors and respect you opion but you dont have to bash everyone that post something that you dont belive in. I am send it to a third party that has nothing to do with this so if they send it back to me saying that it is junk then thats that the end.