Cannondaleriders

His ad... 2002 speed 3k
"Excellent condition bike. Motor was sent in to ATK and rebuilt to a 450cc at a cost of $3000.00 Bike has barely been ridden at all and it shows in it's almost perfect condition.

This bike has been stored indoors always and not ridden in two years. It will start if pull started. Offering it at a much reduced price because I do not have the time to fix the starting issue. Once started, it runs like new. "

So I caution him about pull starting and offer to take a look at it. Gave him a hint that the market probably would not give him what he was looking for and tho he has my sympathy on the 3k rebuild, it does not equate to the understandable way he might be thinking.

So he brings it over and I hook up the D&M thinking new hex, throttle cal and a choice of maps and send him on his way. Could not get into the ECU, has the whatever rev harness without the diode update so ecu might be toast. Hook up a spare ecu and no fuel pump cycling, remember the part about sitting for two years! Fuel pump is locked up and gas smells like paint thinner. Gas hoses are turning to glass, no hose hooked to the tranny breather and other vac hoses are rotten. Replace vac hoses, dump gas and put fresh in and a spare pump. Check the plug condition and make sure there is spark all good, should fire up. But it seems the injectors are gummed up too, you can crank it pinned and not even a hiccup and the plug stays dry..
There is alot of cranking blow by out the breather at the air box and looking down the spark plug hole there is a small hole about the size where a ball point pen tip might barely fit in it on the top of the piston? Dont know what that is about!
Cranks kind slow and labored, swapped in a known good battery and starter and it did not help much. Valve cover is black so I assume it is mag and it has green coolant in it so there are likely issues there that will have to be dealt with. Checked the oil inlet screen to the motor and a little bit but not much metal there. Flywheel and stator is in good shape.
So at this point the only option I see is to pull the motor and see what is going on. I did not tell him this yet because I did not think about it until after I told him everything I had done, but I am thinking the decomp among what could be other things has issues.
What do you think and what would you reccomend to him? I dont feel right about charging him for what I did since I dont have it running, he may be at the end of his rope. I need another dale like I need a hole in the head but what do you think it is worth honestly! It is pretty much otherwise in the condition he states and I would hate to see it parted. I would like everyones input so he does not hear it from just me!
I will send him a link...

Thanks,
Ray

We just picked up a Speed that needed an impeller and some random fender screws for $1500. The impeller was the ONLY thing that kept it from being rideable, and even then it cranked up and ran, but just got hot quickly (obviously!). The engine was rebuilt very recently by cdsracer, so reliability was not a question, just didn't do the aluminum impeller mod when it was out, so the plastic one stripped, and the owner was at the end of his rope.

I picked up my wife's Glamis for $1500 from the original owner, and it needed a set of scavenge pump gears, which were stripped because of a cracked/chipped valve bucket, so there was some other necessary work involved with it. We only thought it needed pump gears, but are still ecstatic about the purchase.

We have an Cannibal in very good shape for sale for $2550, with a freshly rebuilt engine and everything is in good working condition. Ready to ride and enjoy for a long time. We expect it to sell quickly, in fact we already have potential buyers, and are just waiting on title from the DMV.

I bought my two hour used Moto from a collector for $4500, and it needed updates, but was otherwise perfect.

I would not consider buying a Dale in that kind of shape for more than $1500-$1800, just because I have seen so many good deals, and I know the work involved in fixing just the obvious problems you have mentioned. Already you have put hours into it, not to mention the parts costs, and there are still problems. I am of the opinion that $2500 should get you a nice, running, updated Dale, with basic Cannibal suspension, ready to roll... Blazes seem to be running ~$3500, due to the suspension, nerfs, titanium pipe, etc. Motos don't seem to be too far behind, which is a bit baffling, but that is what keeps us in these quads-the low prices. Good luck with what you are doing, I have been there. Sometimes it can be a nightmare, but sometimes you can get one more person on a Dale and happy. Once again, good luck, and kudos to you for being helpful, that is what I love about this brand's community!

Quick update... After reading my report the owner says.. "Remember, it does run if pull started. Done it just about 2 months ago."
Against my better judgement I went ahead and tried it. It kind of tries to run and responds to throttle inconsistintly, it sounds like an engine with the timing way retarded is the only way to describe it. It will not idle and I can see blowby actually pushing a little past the air filter since I had the plastic off.
So this means that the ecu is probably good, the fuel pump is only recently seized, got some ideas to free it up?
I am thinking something is ugly up in the valve train, like decomp or soft cam syndrome or maybe sign of crank bearing failure. Will check the oil filter tomorrow, any more ideas? I am still of the opinion that the motor needs to come out.
Ray

If he sent his ECU with the motor to ATK, that might explain why you can't talk to it.

As for charging him. Dude, you put a lot of time into it and were acting like a consultant. That you didn't get it running is kind of besides the point. You did take care of a some potential problems for him. So, I'd say charge him whatever you think is fair for your time. When you drag your car to a mechanic, they will charge you for diagnostic work even if they don't get your car running. If you go to the doctor's office and you have a virus and are sick, they will tell you that you don't need an antibiotic and to drink lots of fluid and send you on your way--they will charge you for that. I'd say your time is worth something. Just my .02.

WJR

Thanks for the input, he has offered to pay no matter what. I just said I did not feel right charging him especially after seeing the evidence that he actually paid ATK 3k for a rebuild. Of course I shouldnt be making that my problem so I will charge from the time I really had to dig into it. I always have a hard time figuring out what to charge which is why I dont run my own business, if left to my own devices I would probably be up to my eyeballs in work and broke!
Was atk running their code on ecu's two plus years ago? That could explain it because it was giving me a different error like wrong password instead of failed to unlock like I got when I had that dead ecu. BTW he sent in the ecu and it somehow got lost and they charged him for a new one!
Thanks again,
Ray

Got "lost" huh? I dont think I will ever send anything to ATK or in that fact ever buy anything directly from them. I have heard toooo many horror stories. Isnt 3K alot for a rebuild?

Ray what kind of D&M do you have?If its a regular Optimum you cant do any ECU other than ones that are registered.

I answered 27 via PM
Update:
I guess I should have done it sooner but the fact that there was not much material in the screen kind of fooled me. I pulled the oil filter and it is full of very fine metal, my guess is that they gave him soft cams and they are so flat that it will not breathe. Explains all of the symptoms, I will find out when I pull it and post an update.
Faced with what all it would take to correct that we agreed on a reasonable deal for me to take it off his hands.

Ray

Have not been able to get on for what seemed like forever!
Final update....
The piston started coming apart and some of the pieces dinged up the head a bit. The piston pin was starting to seize a bit on the rod or maybe that was the cause! The steel liner does not look too bad is there a good piston that can be used if it will clean up after honing?
So it belongs to me now!
Ray