450 or 467 piston

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4wheelracer · #1 Post by **4wheelracer** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:12 pm

I wrote earlier about what piston was the most durable but also capable of beating a 450r or yfz 450 /pipe on short track. would love to buy a Timbo stroker but I hear he is very busy. I HAVE 3 CANNONDALE ENGINES and two quads to REBUILD, two are stock and ond has been ported by black widow.both have HMF exhaust. thanks Ray

wistech · #2 Post by **wistech** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:36 pm

On stock heads a 450 piston is worth 1 and a 460 piston 2 hp. Not really gonna help you if your at 38-40 and need to beat 48 to 50hp jap quads. My advice is to stay with stock pistons get your heads ported by Timbo with the throttle body and intake mods to match. That should get you 50 . Then if you can afford it go with the larger pistons to get the edge you are looking for.

4wheelracer · #3 Post by **4wheelracer** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:21 am

ALL my engines have bad cranks which means that I need both cranks and pistons . so which piston should I get(cp,or the "98wwe style" gas port piston that timbo sells )I want to have one to race with and one to play with..p.s.Are you saying the port job I got from black widow is no good? thanks in advance, Ray

wistech · #4 Post by **wistech** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:55 pm

I don't think Timbo sells the WWE style pistons anymore. The ones he got because WWE never paid his bill to CP and they offered to finish them up and sell them to Tim. I'm pretty sure Tim's new 460 kits are just like all the other custom pistons he has with the long skirts, coatings and no or much less gas porting.
As far as porting engines dyno charts speak for themselves.

thedeatons · #5 Post by **thedeatons** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:00 pm

Yeah, in regards to porting, what I have experienced is that Brad says that Travis at ATK has very light porting. So light that it leaves Cord at Black Widow room to port it more to his liking. Timbo's porting is huge.

ATK (Travis porting) = Light
Black Widow (Cord porting) = Medium
Matczak Machining (Timbo porting) = Heavy

Each port job will require different maps, as they are all varying levels of flow. Like Wistech said, a Timbo ported engine with a stock ASSO piston (432cc) makes 49hp on the dyno (my experience). A Timbo ported engine with a CP piston (Nykasil liner) (450cc) makes 52hp on the dyno (my experience). Either one is great fun. Can you justify 2-3hp for $400 (CP piston cost)?

4wheelracer · #6 Post by **4wheelracer** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:18 pm

So does that mean that I will have to send my computer in as well. I currently have 2 Moto mappings and a Blaze mapping on my computers (s1000) also does it matter who I get my cranks from and new or rebuilt?

wistech · #7 Post by **wistech** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:41 pm

QUOTE (4wheelracer @ Jul 20 2008, 10:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So does that mean that I will have to send my computer in as well. I currently have 2 Moto mappings and a Blaze mapping on my computers (s1000) also does it matter who I get my cranks from and new or rebuilt?

No that means you need to forget about using stock maps and go with maps design for perfomance heads. You will needs a D&M kit and dyno tune your engine just like everybody else.

And don't buy a Falicon stroker. I don't really care what anybody says they are junk.

speedracer · #8 Post by **speedracer** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:34 pm

QUOTE (4wheelracer @ Jul 19 2008, 03:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wrote earlier about what piston was the most durable but also capable of beating a 450r or yfz 450 /pipe on short track. would love to buy a Timbo stroker but I hear he is very busy. I HAVE 3 CANNONDALE ENGINES and two quads to REBUILD, two are stock and ond has been ported by black widow.both have HMF exhaust. thanks Ray

My 467 Timbo motor is a monster, NO problem with most 450s!

cannondale27 · #9 Post by **cannondale27** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:42 am

Believe me you don't need a stroker to win on a short track oval. As a matter of fact I like the stock stroke ported because it hooks up better coming out of the turns because of less lowend than stroker and just screams by the rest. Go with a 97mm CP and Timbo porting=450cc. Only time you will wish you had a stroker is a 1/2 mi where you need to run extremely high gearing or for a TT where the corner exit speed is real slow.