Air/fuel mixture signs

Message

cdalerider92 · #1 Post by **cdalerider92** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:10 am

Hey everybody I was wondering if anyone could tell me how to tell whether my air/fuel mixture is too rich or too lean without having to pull the plug. I've been having some rich mixture problems with the map that I was suggested previously in another post, so I tried leaning it out from a flowrate of 2603 to 2650 just to get a small adjustment, but I'm still having some cold start problems where it will take a few cycles to start and then it will only run for like two seconds and then cut out. Eventually it will get going, but it just seems odd that it takes so many tries to get started. I also don't want to risk and serious damage. Thanks for all advice.

rayspeed · #2 Post by **rayspeed** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:53 am

That flow rate of 2603 looks suspiciously like a flow rate setting that automatically populates the cal file of some maps and is a dangerously lean setting for most any motor... and you took it even leaner all of which describes you symptoms to a tee. I know this because that was the first mistake I made when I first started with a d&m. Remember you have to check mark the flow rate you want after you open a new map and before you send it but the first thing you should have done was to recieve cal's. You have to check mark the one you want which is a received cal which was probably more like in the range of 2350 to 2475 give or take... Same for the offset and what not but if you did not receive these first and write them down they are pretty much lost and you have to manually enter themin the update calibrations screen.

Of course the real answer is to put it on a dyno with an afr meter but barring that I can give you some tips to maybe get you closer. A plug check will not really tell you so much.

I have found that if you end up with with a tps at idle in the 3-5% range (with a proper throttle cal) means that your offset is not too far off but if you have to take it beyond those settings and it is stalling or surging at idle then your offset needs a little tweaking. Unlike the flow rate the higher number on the offset makes it richer at idle and start up. Normal range for that is around .89 to 1.20 if you are at the low end of that a bigger number will help if you are lean on start up but for now you need to take the flow rate back to what it was before you melt a piston.

wistech · #3 Post by **wistech** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:04 am

What Ray said...
Just a simple tip . If you rip around and it backfiring on decel or the headpipe is glowing its crazy lean. While in neutral and you snap rev it while looking back and it shoots a small puff of black its crazy rich on the flowrate. Also being kind of doggy while in a gear to high shows a rich condition.
You can do a plug check to ballpark it as well .
If its to lean on the offset starting and stalling within the first minute or 2 of running from dead cold might need a couple tenths more . After running a few minutes it should fire up within a split second of hitting the button. If you have to doa cold start prime when warm it needs more low end fuel.
Is your engine completley stock except for a pod filter and fmf?

cdalerider92 · #4 Post by **cdalerider92** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:00 am

Hi I finally got it to start. Bad gas was preventing it from staying started. However, once I got it started I rode for about a quarter of a tank before the plug fouled and the quad refused to start. Got around to pulling the plug and it was black as night. As I had put earlier this was at a 2650 flowrate and a .88 offset. Also, this is with brand new 91 octane. Any ideas on what I'm doing wrong here? It has a pod filter, boomer tank upgrade, ported head, and by fmf I mean a FMF powercore 4 from a raptor 660 that I modified to fit onto my dale. By modify I simply flipped the endcap since the exhaust hangs on the opposite side compared to a Raptor, but does match right up. I also wrapped the header if that makes a difference. Thanks for all of the help!

cdalerider92 · #5 Post by **cdalerider92** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:16 am

I am also sitting at roughly 4800 feet above sea level if that plays into the numbers any. Thanks.

kdeal · #6 Post by **kdeal** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:32 pm

The map you are using is way off base then. What the guys are saying is correct assuming the map you start with was in the ballpark to start with. It almost sounds like you are using a map for much more modified motor or Harley injectors. Tuning a map that is that far off is useless unless you change the settings in the map itself. I would start with a known map that is close to what you need.

cdalerider92 · #7 Post by **cdalerider92** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:07 pm

Well that's the weird thing. Every single map that I have found and opened in the D&M comes up with 2603 flowrate except for the stock X440 map and that came up with an even higher number. Also, by what they are saying I should be running REALLY lean, but every time I pull the plug it is black as can be. So there is definitely something weird going on with either my program or my quad. I figured maybe I was fouling the plug because I am at 4800 feet, but then again I did nothing to change the map to begin with. The very first map that I used was the Orange County Open map that Sloot suggested to me in another post previously and when I opened that cal in the D&M it had a flowrate of 2603. So I must be getting corrupted files or something because I opened up a supposedly stock Cannibal map and stock Moto map and they both came up with a 2603 flowrate. What should my flowrate and inj offset be about? I just find it interesting that the flowrate that I'm running EVERYONE is saying that it is way too lean, but I keep getting fouled, black plugs. Thanks for all of the help.

haulinit · #8 Post by **haulinit** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:59 pm

Fuel pressure reg?

cdalerider92 · #9 Post by **cdalerider92** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:28 pm

How do I test something like that? What am I looking for?

Thanks.

wistech · #10 Post by **wistech** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:48 pm

QUOTE (cdalerider92 @ Mar 19 2012, 10:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi I finally got it to start. Bad gas was preventing it from staying started. However, once I got it started I rode for about a quarter of a tank before the plug fouled and the quad refused to start. Got around to pulling the plug and it was black as night. As I had put earlier this was at a 2650 flowrate and a .88 offset. Also, this is with brand new 91 octane. Any ideas on what I'm doing wrong here? It has a pod filter, boomer tank upgrade, ported head, and by fmf I mean a FMF powercore 4 from a raptor 660 that I modified to fit onto my dale. By modify I simply flipped the endcap since the exhaust hangs on the opposite side compared to a Raptor, but does match right up. I also wrapped the header if that makes a difference. Thanks for all of the help!

Whos ported head. Is it a real port job or cleanup . Is the throttle body bored? Is it a cyclone intake? What header are you using ? The fmf ti header or the stainless steel toaster?
What injectors are you using? Stock, Harley, corvette,custom?
What size engine is it?

One thing all Dales should have is an inline fuel pressure guage. A simple tee fitting with 1/4 barbs and a liquid filled mini guage makes life a whole lot easier. It goes in the line from the injector to the pressure regulator. You might have an injector sticking open which is easy to tell by removing the throttle body and running the fuel pump . It should not drip or leak. Hows the fuel return to the tank?