A call for help!

Message

MI_CDALE_Rider · #1 Post by **MI_CDALE_Rider** » Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:57 pm

Hello all, I would like to query the Cannondale world on a coolant issue I have on a recently purchased CDALE Cannibal.

Also BIG thanks to Dave AKA Canniboomer for all the FANTASTIC help he has provided, Dave is just simply the man!

I Apologize in advance for the long "War and Peace" post.

History -
2002 Cannibal with supposed Falicon Crank and motor rebuild possibly by Haydoug (never was quite clear from the previous owner).
At the purchase I rode the quad and all appeared well.

First trail ride back home all the fluids were double checked and off I went. Quad stalled but restarted right away (still rolling). On third stall I stopped and
could hear the coolant boiling in the coolant bottle and no fan running, cycled the key and fan came on. Sat for an extended period to let it cool off (now I'm stuck deep in the woods - alone).
Restarted the quad and took off back to the trailhead/parking. Quad stalled again/boiling/puking coolant out cap. Ended up getting towed out of the woods.

Radiator wasn't in great shape but water ran through it. I replaced the radiator, the coolant sensor and all the coolant hoses and topped off to the Level mark with fresh coolant (Engine Ice).
After restarting and let run the coolant did the same thing, backed up into the bottle and puked out. Replaced coolant bottle with newer style vent on top and replaced the impeller cover with a new
impeller cover with auto bleed port/preformed hose/gasket. Replaced the coolant. Note I checked aluminum impeller gap to engine as good and it was secured on the shaft - no frees pinning,
bump started the engine and impeller turned and did not bind. Checked the inlet hole just left and below the impeller and it was clear. No leaks on the engine anywhere. The issue still remains
coolant overfills the bottle and pukes out.

Disconnects coolant hoses at the radiator and ran hose water to check for blockage, water ran thru radiator with no issues. With hoses still connected to impeller cover and lower coolant outlet and the coolant drained
I ran hose water into the impeller hose and it came through the coolant outlet hose OK, no foreign material or material. Hooked and the hoses back up and filled coolant bottle with water until it remained at the level mark
Water level went up and down and would overfill and puke out the cap if the throttle was blipped from the idle position.

In summary, I was able to prove to myself that water ran freely through the radiator and through the engine, even with no cooling fan (it did come on when 12V was applied directly to the connector)
I don't think it should be backing up into the coolant bottle and puking out the cap.

At this point I think the coolant system and/or the engine is possessed by demons and I'm ready to turn it in for scrap out of frustration...

So not that the facts are on the table has anyone run across this scenario and were you able to address it somehow?
If I didn't explain something Cleary please hit me up.

Thanks in advance to anyone that can advise on this issue. Again Thanks to Canniboomer for being there for me you rock Dave!

I hope you all had fun at the ride event, I wish I could have been there!

Thanks!

Ken Jones
AKA MI_CDALE_Rider

BlackToothGrin · #2 Post by **BlackToothGrin** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:59 pm

Maybe try re-loading the last hex code to the ecu. Think it's hex code 4?

Canniboomer · #3 Post by **Canniboomer** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:26 pm

Yep the fan switching is apparently a problem, and needs check. But from what I also understand, the surging and coolant loss is starting before the machine has a chance to even reach any fan cut-in temperature... is that correct?..
I would keep clear water in it for now, and do a "visual" pumping check.... Here is a picture from years ago, but it shows normal good flow in a Cannondale, even at a normal idle.
To hook up?
1. Disconnect U-hose at bottom right of the Coolant Bottle, and clamp that Closed.
2. Remove the large inlet hose at the Impeller Cover, and put some extension on that hose -- to reach the Coolant Bottle Fill Opening.
3. Connect the bottom front of the Coolant Bottle ... curled back to the Impeller Cover Inlet, with any hose.
4. Fill the bottle to the normal line, and start the machine.

You should witness immediate flow, and running clear after a very short time -- without bubbles in the hose stream.

Perhaps the top of the cylinder is leaking past the O-ring seal at each compression stroke?, like a 1-way compressor pump, and pushing some exhaust gas into the coolant?... a small amount at each Rev, and of course much faster when you Rev the motor.... Has anybody out there ever heard of?... or witnessed such a phenomena?...

Anyway, any invasion of exhaust gas should reveal some continued bubbles and some dark contaminants in the water.
It's worth a try I think, since it will immediately confirm normal pumping anyway. Hopefully it's not an internal issue

MI_CDALE_Rider · #4 Post by **MI_CDALE_Rider** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:14 pm

Dave,

Yep I plan on getting into the fan issue on the next trip to the quad. Correct on the surging/and coolant bottle fill before reaching warm up temp temp. It would fill the bottle in less than a minute during a cold engine start.

A friend of mine at work suggested getting "block tester fluid" from Autozone. You drop some of the coolant into this fluid and if there is carbon present the fluid changes color supposedly indicating leakage into coolant (small crack perhaps).

I will try the test steps you outlined on the next trip.

Thanks again Dave for the input your help is awesome!!

Ken

QUOTE (Canniboomer @ Sep 8 2014, 12:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep the fan switching is apparently a problem, and needs check. But from what I also understand, the surging and coolant loss is starting before the machine has a chance to even reach any fan cut-in temperature... is that correct?..
I would keep clear water in it for now, and do a "visual" pumping check.... Here is a picture from years ago, but it shows normal good flow in a Cannondale, even at a normal idle.
To hook up?
1. Disconnect U-hose at bottom right of the Coolant Bottle, and clamp that Closed.
2. Remove the large inlet hose at the Impeller Cover, and put some extension on that hose -- to reach the Coolant Bottle Fill Opening.
3. Connect the bottom front of the Coolant Bottle ... curled back to the Impeller Cover Inlet, with any hose.
4. Fill the bottle to the normal line, and start the machine.

You should witness immediate flow, and running clear after a very short time -- without bubbles in the hose stream.

Perhaps the top of the cylinder is leaking past the O-ring seal at each compression stroke?, like a 1-way compressor pump, and pushing some exhaust gas into the coolant?... a small amount at each Rev, and of course much faster when you Rev the motor.... Has anybody out there ever heard of?... or witnessed such a phenomena?...

Anyway, any invasion of exhaust gas should reveal some continued bubbles and some dark contaminants in the water.
It's worth a try I think, since it will immediately confirm normal pumping anyway. Hopefully it's not an internal issue

speedracer · #5 Post by **speedracer** » Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:46 am

I dont know if this applys to you,but I had non-running fan issues .I have a blackwidow harness add-on that runs the fan and fuelpump,well one of the relays went bad not allowing the fan to run,didnt know until it started puking coolant.

MI_CDALE_Rider · #6 Post by **MI_CDALE_Rider** » Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:10 am

QUOTE (speedracer @ Sep 8 2014, 08:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I dont know if this applys to you,but I had non-running fan issues .I have a blackwidow harness add-on that runs the fan and fuelpump,well one of the relays went bad not allowing the fan to run,didnt know until it started puking coolant.

Good info speedracer thanks, I don't have that harness installed, but I do have it sitting on the shelf to install. I did replace the stock relay in the ECU tray with a known good one but it didn't change the fan status.

yamadjs08 · #7 Post by **yamadjs08** » Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:09 pm

Are both radiator hoses getting hot when it boils over?

MI_CDALE_Rider · #8 Post by **MI_CDALE_Rider** » Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:19 pm

QUOTE (yamadjs08 @ Sep 9 2014, 10:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are both radiator hoses getting hot when it boils over?

Initially no the hose to the impeller cover was much slower to warm. After changing to the auto bleed type impeller cover they seem to warm at similar times.

jesshamner · #9 Post by **jesshamner** » Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:07 pm

Maybe I missed it but how long are we talking for the coolant to start boiling?

MI_CDALE_Rider · #10 Post by **MI_CDALE_Rider** » Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:28 pm

QUOTE (jesshamner @ Sep 10 2014, 05:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe I missed it but how long are we talking for the coolant to start boiling?

Two issues here jesshamner, first coolant backs up into coolant bottle within 1-2 minutes (or less) on a cold start and pukes out the cap. Second if the boiling after 10 minute ride.

so its a combo issue, I haven't been able to ride long enough to get it to boil again as backs up the coolant right away and I'm afraid to cook the engine and ride it for any length of time.