Okay guys, here's hoping you can help me out.
I recently was given an '03 (I think?) E440R by my father and I just can't seem to get it to start. The bike was running great a year ago, he had it out on a ride around the yard and after about 15min it fell on its face. He managed to limp it back to the garage and it hasn't ran since.
I have only ever worked on 2-stroke carbed bikes, so this thing is a mystery to me. I have all the manuals, a bunch of other literature, and the GP control system.
The bike will crank and crank and every 4th-5th turnover it'll make a deep womp sound like it is managing to ignite some fuel, but it never does more than that.
Here's what I have done:
-New battery
-New injectors, new FPR. Good misting from injectors
-New plug, looks like a good spark
-Reflashed ECU, set all parameters back in spec. Idle screw is correct. No faults detected.
-Checked flywheel, it is fine. Keyway lines up with the C
-Compression reads ~73psi
-Ran 24v to the starter to crank faster, still didn't fire, only backfired out TB
-poured a bit of oil down plug hole, smoked a bit when it did the womp but never anything more
He said the bike has pretty much every reliability upgrade done except the billet decomp and an aluminum head (running Evans since new). Tank has aftermarket fuel shutoffs and good return flow.
I really want to get this thing running, but I am running out of ideas. Any help is greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
New to me Cannondale, can't get it running
Okay, I'm back. Had a move, work got busy, and life in general got in the way of me working on the Cannondale.
Finally though, is cold and time to work on it again!
Here's what's new
-Replaced coil and plug, great spark
-New crank position sensor
-Replaced fuel lines
-Cleaned and tested injectors, seem to be spraying nicely
-Did a throttle recal, loaded a new map (HarryMoto TS 150. Throttle closed is 2.7%, set idle to 6%)
With those changes, along with what I did in the previous post, I still cant get it to run. It does seem to get very close though.
Previously, every 4th crank or so it would make a womp sound like it ignited the fuel; now, it does that on every crank with the throttle closed (throttle at 6%).
If I OPEN the throttle to say, 10% or greater, the bike backfires through the throttle body with a visible flame.
The ECU readings are as follows:
TPS Closed .37v
TPS WOT 4.45v
All temperatures are correct
Air pressure is correct
TB Leakage 0.0
Flow rate 2400 (also tried 2603 from HarryMoto map)
Injector offset .88
I am getting good fuel pressure, plenty of return flow, and a good mist from the injectors. Spark looks strong, but I don't know if there is a way to check the timing of the spark.
Is the compression of 73psi correct? I know these bikes have an auto decomp on them, not sure what the compression should read though. I know if I showed 73psi on one of my 2-stroke bikes I'd be tearing the engine apart.
I'll add some videos of what it's doing in a minute.
Finally though, is cold and time to work on it again!
Here's what's new
-Replaced coil and plug, great spark
-New crank position sensor
-Replaced fuel lines
-Cleaned and tested injectors, seem to be spraying nicely
-Did a throttle recal, loaded a new map (HarryMoto TS 150. Throttle closed is 2.7%, set idle to 6%)
With those changes, along with what I did in the previous post, I still cant get it to run. It does seem to get very close though.
Previously, every 4th crank or so it would make a womp sound like it ignited the fuel; now, it does that on every crank with the throttle closed (throttle at 6%).
If I OPEN the throttle to say, 10% or greater, the bike backfires through the throttle body with a visible flame.
The ECU readings are as follows:
TPS Closed .37v
TPS WOT 4.45v
All temperatures are correct
Air pressure is correct
TB Leakage 0.0
Flow rate 2400 (also tried 2603 from HarryMoto map)
Injector offset .88
I am getting good fuel pressure, plenty of return flow, and a good mist from the injectors. Spark looks strong, but I don't know if there is a way to check the timing of the spark.
Is the compression of 73psi correct? I know these bikes have an auto decomp on them, not sure what the compression should read though. I know if I showed 73psi on one of my 2-stroke bikes I'd be tearing the engine apart.
I'll add some videos of what it's doing in a minute.
Okay, links to videos below.
Video of injectors spraying:
Injectors out of TB
Injectors in TB
And here is what it sounds like when it is trying to fire:
Trying to fire
Video of injectors spraying:
Injectors out of TB
Injectors in TB
And here is what it sounds like when it is trying to fire:
Trying to fire
-
Canniboomer
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
When the notch or "C" of a good flywheel is at 12 o'clock high, the piston should be at TDC. If not, the flywheel is slipped on itself, or the woodruff key has sheared, or a timing chain slip in the motor (rare event).
You can use anything to probe the piston from the plug hole to confirm the key is also ok, and without even removing the flywheel nut. While doing that, you could try using a tablespoon or so of oil to the cylinder.. sometimes helps to get one going again.
But "decomped" compression of 73 should be fine.
Hmnn maybe problem is internal to motor.
You can use anything to probe the piston from the plug hole to confirm the key is also ok, and without even removing the flywheel nut. While doing that, you could try using a tablespoon or so of oil to the cylinder.. sometimes helps to get one going again.
But "decomped" compression of 73 should be fine.
Hmnn maybe problem is internal to motor.
QUOTE (Canniboomer @ Nov 17 2015, 07:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
When the notch or "C" of a good flywheel is at 12 o'clock high, the piston should be at TDC. If not, the flywheel is slipped on itself, or the woodruff key has sheared, or a timing chain slip in the motor (rare event).
You can use anything to probe the piston from the plug hole to confirm the key is also ok, and without even removing the flywheel nut. While doing that, you could try using a tablespoon or so of oil to the cylinder.. sometimes helps to get one going again.
But "decomped" compression of 73 should be fine.
Hmnn maybe problem is internal to motor.
You can use anything to probe the piston from the plug hole to confirm the key is also ok, and without even removing the flywheel nut. While doing that, you could try using a tablespoon or so of oil to the cylinder.. sometimes helps to get one going again.
But "decomped" compression of 73 should be fine.
Hmnn maybe problem is internal to motor.
I'm thinking along the same lines, sounds like if you have fuel, spark and assume good compression, then it is spark timing.
be sure not to touch the throttle when starting these things, it should start with just the button.
feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
QUOTE (Canniboomer @ Nov 17 2015, 08:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
When the notch or "C" of a good flywheel is at 12 o'clock high, the piston should be at TDC. If not, the flywheel is slipped on itself, or the woodruff key has sheared, or a timing chain slip in the motor (rare event).
You can use anything to probe the piston from the plug hole to confirm the key is also ok, and without even removing the flywheel nut. While doing that, you could try using a tablespoon or so of oil to the cylinder.. sometimes helps to get one going again.
But "decomped" compression of 73 should be fine.
Hmnn maybe problem is internal to motor.
You can use anything to probe the piston from the plug hole to confirm the key is also ok, and without even removing the flywheel nut. While doing that, you could try using a tablespoon or so of oil to the cylinder.. sometimes helps to get one going again.
But "decomped" compression of 73 should be fine.
Hmnn maybe problem is internal to motor.
I had already checked to see if the flywheel was spun, but never checked the woodruff key. Piston was traveling downward before C hit 12 o clock, pulled the flywheel and the key is sheared. I feel like an idiot. $100+ in parts and it's a $3 key.
Good call! Now to see if I can find a key locally!
EDIT: IT LIVES! Found a generic key at a hardware store and ground it down to match the stock key. Heading to local bike dealer tomorrow to see if they have one that fits correctly. Worst case scenario I'll order one from Blackwidow! Now to put it back together!
QUOTE (zoommx @ Nov 17 2015, 03:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
EDIT: IT LIVES! Found a generic key at a hardware store and ground it down to match the stock key. Heading to local bike dealer tomorrow to see if they have one that fits correctly. Worst case scenario I'll order one from Blackwidow! Now to put it back together!
That's good news, good that you got it before going too deep into it.
I am thrilled, and my dad who gave me the bike is as well. Got all the fluids changed and filled, new air filter, and it's almost completely reassembled.
My only concern with the bike is that there is a bit of smoke coming out the muffler still, but I'm thinking that the oil is just residual from adding oil to the cylinder a couple times trying to get it running.
I am planning to go to a poker run to race it on Sunday the 29th at Cole Camp in MO, that'll be the shakedown run to determine if I'll try to do anything major engine wise this winter.
My only concern with the bike is that there is a bit of smoke coming out the muffler still, but I'm thinking that the oil is just residual from adding oil to the cylinder a couple times trying to get it running.
I am planning to go to a poker run to race it on Sunday the 29th at Cole Camp in MO, that'll be the shakedown run to determine if I'll try to do anything major engine wise this winter.