Engine question

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NavyFireman
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#1 Post by NavyFireman »

Is there a reason Cannondale went with an aluminum piston liner and not steel? Maybe one of the engine builders on here could chime in. Couldn???t find any info on this site. Was it a cost issue , throw away concept, heat transfer due to the small water jacket or what was there thinking? Any engine I have ever worked on has had a steel sleeve. I???ve read posts on here where builders were going larger than 65 mm on bore size. If that were the case a custom sleeve had to be used I???m sure, also Being a coated aluminum liner I wouldn???t think boring would be an option without some type of re-treatment. Has anyone compared longevity with a steel liner vs. aluminum, even at stock bore? I???m very curious and would like to know more. I???m a newbie so I apologize for the stupidity. Im a nerd 🤓 and can???t sleep I found a couple interesting write ups online about piston sleeves.

https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2018/02/sl...allurgic-magic/

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=...562321063802140

Canniboomer
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#2 Post by Canniboomer »

The stock kit has proven long term durable. Larger bores have been done in aftermarket steel, and also by boring out, and then a renewed nikasil type treatment. Going beyond stock these days will triple the cost, at minimum. Head porting is usually invested first.

NavyFireman
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#3 Post by NavyFireman »

Thank you for the response. What is the typical cost for a piston kit with sleeve? Who manufactures the stock pistons? Wisco ?

Canniboomer
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#4 Post by Canniboomer »

Wiseco had made the earliest batch of cdale pistons. The later version is Asso Werke Italy, and what most of us use now. Longer skirts than the old Wiseco. Wiseco had slight more compression at 12.5. Asso is just under 12 and good stuff. PM sent

wistech
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#5 Post by wistech »

Longevity from steel to nikasil? Ive been using both and both barring damage from other engine concerns they both last pretty much forever in this application. Both can be bored bigger but Nikasil is much more expensive to recoat. I have seen Nikasil peel off and get chips . Some of the aftermarket steel sleeves had some quality control issues with nonconcentric bores. If you get water in the engine or let a steel sleeve sit dry on the shelf they can rust up . Wiseco pistons have short sleeves which cave in and the piston will start smoking and burning oil around 20 hours. Performance wise they both rock. You can shave the top off both for stroker crank clearance . For a stock power engine you want to run forever the ASSO kits are the way to go.

NavyFireman
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#6 Post by NavyFireman »

This was what I was wondering about Wistech. Seems as tho the Cannondale aluminum sleeves are finished machined in a fixture and then nikisled? I know with the industry standard on a wet cast sleeve is a interference fit of .004 press .002 a side. What amount of press is on the aluminum sleeves couldn???t see it being more than a few tenths a side. Being that they are finished machined outside of the block without a torque plate and coated how is the concentricity once pressed in the case, honing is not possible? I???ll be curious to check with a bore gauge.Compared to a steel sleeve that can be pressed in case ,bored and finished honed to size with torque plate.Any issues with ???egg shaping??? with the aluminum sleeves? A cast moly sleeve would not need coated unlike an aluminum sleeve. There was a company out west in California I think that makes sleeves. Can???t remember the name. Maybe LA Sleeve? But as canniboomer stated cost would be significant compared to an off the shelf aluminum sleeve . Any difference in hot spots you have noticed around the jug between a steel and aluminum sleeve? I would think aluminum would be like a heat sink idk? I could see how the nikisil could potentially flake off. Does this cause the piston rings to seize up in the aluminum sleeve?

NavyFireman
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#7 Post by NavyFireman »

Does Evans have a rust preventative in it?

wistech
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#8 Post by wistech »

Dale sleeves are crush fit from the head pressure and also get pressure from the sleeve oring as well as head oring . When I have sleeves bored to fit my pistons I have a special case fixture to use. I have my own brand of pistons but mostly use cp brand for customers race engines. I dont really use ASSO much as they are only stock size. Evans coolant works great and will never boil over like regular coolant as it has no water in it. Of course if your boiling over you have a cooling system issue to take care of.

NavyFireman
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#9 Post by NavyFireman »

Thanks Wistech for the response. I take it you made a torque plate that mounts to the top
Of the case?

wistech
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#10 Post by wistech »

Yes you have to clamp them down so they down moved when getting machined.

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