Crank and rod questions

Message

cannondale27 · #1 Post by **cannondale27** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 1:30 pm

I am going to be doing a complete teardown of my motor soon and need to know where I stand with the crank issues.

New style cranks:
Is it true that some were balanced at factory and that this would be indicated by weld being present?

Which bearing is rated at less than 11600rpm the crankbearings or the rod bearing?

Who is replacing these bearings and with what?

Are some of the connecting rods different lengths?

Old style cranks:
Are the stroke and dimensions same as newstyle?

Are the crank bearings rated at more than 11600rpm?

Has Carrilo come up with a updated rod to fix the rod bearing problem.

I really would appreciate answers to these.I dont do crankwork and would also like to hear who is best qualified to do work.

Jammer72 · #2 Post by **Jammer72** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 4:41 pm

Cannondale27, good questions as my motor is currently on my workbench. Im just trying to figure out exactly what to do with mine. I plan on the stage 8 but figured if its out I may as well have some other fixes done.

DangerRanger · #3 Post by **DangerRanger** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 4:43 pm

Hey Steve....call Jim Winklebauer he will get ya taken care of.

Tell him Ben sent ya!!

Ben

claas900 · #4 Post by **claas900** » Fri Sep 26, 2003 1:45 am

..Hey Cannon27..i spent almost and hour with Big Winky the other day on the phone,about him doing my crank for me...Iv lost a rod bearning. He does a lot of work to them,new rod "CARRILLO" Balancing at a Dynamic 11,000 rpm,better rod berning rated at 14,000rpm and has a better quality right side bearing and has a good lead on a better left side bearing.

He also offers a stock bore and a 450cc kit and will match the balancing to either one.I think he said? :wink: he might be working? on a strocker crank? :wink: i think he said ?? But u didnt hear it form me.. :wink: Im going to try to beat more of that info from him..lol..

And I think its the rod bearing rated at only 11,000 rpm or was it only 10,000 rpm?..let me see if i can think of anything else???

Jaybr · #5 Post by **Jaybr** » Fri Sep 26, 2003 1:51 am

I just went through this with the 03 I bought, well I still am I guess. I know that the factory did balance some of the newer cranks and they have a weld spot. Not exactly sure if that's the only way to tell, I just know they supposedly fixed the problem around Sept 03 and I saw a Dec. motor with a welded spot on the crank.

I also know the bearing problem with the first gen motor was fixed around oct 01 with a different rod bearing. My 02 Speed was built in Nov 01 and has been flawless and has little to no vibration in it.

I pulled the motor in the 03 I bought right after breakin and did the stage 8, motor mount and crankcase breather updates, and installed metal oil pump gears. When I rode it the first time (I let my son do the break in rides) I noticed how bad it vibrated compared to my Speed so I figured it has an unballanced crank. I found a second gen 02 crank (new), with the Corillo rod and good bearings and will be installing that as soon as I get time. I am also installing a new "red" piston and sleeve just to stop that problem before it happens.

The 02 crank will fit in the 03 motor, worst case I'll have to machine .001 off the stator ears in the case because there where some different lengths on the shaft of the crank. ( I'm still a little fuzzy on why this was)

I wish I had more specifics as to the install, but I was teaing down the motor last week when the hurricane hit and I lost power for several days and couldn't finish. I've been traveling all week this week and haven't gotten back to the motor.

cannondale27 · #6 Post by **cannondale27** » Fri Sep 26, 2003 12:16 pm

JayBr,
Those dates mean alot.Thanks.Mine is a december 03 motor so the crank balance is good but the rod bearing is bad?One question for you is do you know why the dec03 motor you saw was apart?I know about the dimples being drilled too deep on sleeves but if that is good what else would be wrong with a green liner which is what I have for spare?
I really dont want to jump to conclusions on these crank problems since I have only seen one crank failure which was caused by oil blowing into filter and the guy kept riding ran it low on oil.
We really dont know for sure that a failure would be caused by a low rated bearing it could be other factors.

Jaybr · #7 Post by **Jaybr** » Fri Sep 26, 2003 12:32 pm

QUOTE

Originally posted by cannondale27
JayBr,
Those dates mean alot.Thanks.Mine is a december 03 motor so the bearing and crank should be good.One question for you is do you know why the dec03 motor you saw was apart?I know about the dimples being drilled too deep on sleeves but if that is good what else would be wrong with a green liner which is what I have for spare?

Ahhhhh, that's an easy one. One of our members picked up an 03 cannibal at the local dealer that was in peices. The dealer has having a problem with it where oil was getting into the cylinder when they initially started it right out of the crate. Probably nothing more than a check bearing, but they tore the motor completly apart and couldn't find the problem. He got a pretty good deal on it with the motor in peices in a box.

I'm not aware of any other problem with the sleeve other than the dimple being too deep. I ran accross a red set and picked it up assuming mine will be bad. If the dimples ok, I'll probably leave it in there.

cannondale27 · #8 Post by **cannondale27** » Fri Sep 26, 2003 12:36 pm

I was editing my post as you were quoting it:D I still may have a problem with the rod bearing ?

Big Winky · #9 Post by **Big Winky** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 1:01 pm

Okay guys, here it goes.... yes, I am rebuilding the cranks, those of you that believe you have a Carrillo rod...DON'T, I was told by Carrillo that it is a copy made by someone else. According to the bearing book the current stock rod bearing is rated for a service limit of 11,000 rpm. Are stock rod bearings available? No, they were custom made by torrington, for c-dale, no stock available. Yes, we have carrillo building our rods, can you purchase just the rod? no. carrillo will direct you to us. yes, we are using a bearing rated at 14,000 rpm service limit. Oiling issues? we have found stock cranks with excessive side clearance being the norm, .015- .025, this cause a severe loss of oil pressure availble to the rest of the motor. We are assembling the cranks to the design specs of .003- .007 side clearance resulting in more oil available to the rest of the motor.yes, the crank is balanced for our rod and the 95mm piston (we made a change in the weight of the rod). Is there more to rebuilding the crank than putting a rod kit on? yes! there are 2 manufacturing defects that cannondale was not aware of that was caused by their vendor of the cranks, which is why some people are taking brand new cranks out in a matter of a few hours. We have addressed this problem and taken the steps to fix them. Are our cranks available now? as of 9/27 we are looking at our next delivery of rods from carrillo approx 10/3. we have quite a bit to do to the cranks before assembly, so if you have a crank that you'd like rebuilt... contact me, as they are done solely on a first come first serve basis. Cost? $600 plus your crank core.
Will we stand behind our rebuild? Yes! Should you look at the main bearings? definitely! (there are ball bearings available like the rest of the manufactures use, instead of using the rollers).
We are rebuilding the cranks to the highest standards we know of and are using the best componets available to produce a crank that is much better than stock. Stroker cranks? we have a couple out there as prototypes. available? sometime this winter, The prototype ones were built using the stock rod and bearing, the new ones will use our rod and bearing. How good is our rebuild? ask dustin at south bay, he has one. (probably disassembled it to look at what we did) LOL. J/K, Dustin
thanks, Jim, Fab Specialties, mfgr. of Diamond racing Products, 814-796-2066, 8-5, m-f, EST, e-mail, diamondracing@cs.com
website www.diamondracingatv.com

cannondale27 · #10 Post by **cannondale27** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 2:39 pm

Well I guess that answers my questions.I was going to call you but I didnt get around to it.I will be giving you my bussiness as soon as I am done riding for the year and start my teardown.

Thanks for your help.