At last the dyno king is deafeated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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cannondale27
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dalewannbe
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We may have to run that quad again with the harley injectors back in. I got a call from cdale55 and it has the old snap rev hesitation problem.What was Acarli's fix for that?
Whats with ****** and his selective memory? The stock injectors are easily good for 50hp engines within the rated duty cycles . Trying to push them past that is whats causing all these weird mapping anomolies like this motor and Animals 505 had. Getting an injector in a near static mode is very dangerous. Thats exactly what the injection shop said would happen. Lets not forget the SAS which required the bigger injectors to keep from melting down.
It took 1.5 hours just to get the 100% throttle throttle variables mapped in for max power. Since this motor is a race engine it will be there most all the time on the gp and tt track. How many hours would it take to map in the hundreds of other little boxes for max performance and low speed drivabilty for each individual high output engine?
There is one other issue I think nobody has looked into to. Ive been comparing a lot of afr charts and it sure seems like a flat afr line has nothing to do with the peak HP numbers. Some of the lines are way down below 10 to 1 and getting a substantial rise in power from it at certain points on the graph. Like we were discussing at Mike's . To heck with the afr and run it where the power is at. Some like to run lean like the yamaha's and some love the fuel. As long as its not detonating or fouling plugs . So far that hasnt been an issue yet.
Whats with ****** and his selective memory? The stock injectors are easily good for 50hp engines within the rated duty cycles . Trying to push them past that is whats causing all these weird mapping anomolies like this motor and Animals 505 had. Getting an injector in a near static mode is very dangerous. Thats exactly what the injection shop said would happen. Lets not forget the SAS which required the bigger injectors to keep from melting down.
It took 1.5 hours just to get the 100% throttle throttle variables mapped in for max power. Since this motor is a race engine it will be there most all the time on the gp and tt track. How many hours would it take to map in the hundreds of other little boxes for max performance and low speed drivabilty for each individual high output engine?
There is one other issue I think nobody has looked into to. Ive been comparing a lot of afr charts and it sure seems like a flat afr line has nothing to do with the peak HP numbers. Some of the lines are way down below 10 to 1 and getting a substantial rise in power from it at certain points on the graph. Like we were discussing at Mike's . To heck with the afr and run it where the power is at. Some like to run lean like the yamaha's and some love the fuel. As long as its not detonating or fouling plugs . So far that hasnt been an issue yet.
"Like I said before dyno numbers don't mean sheet when you are passed by a stock quad."
Hey ******, where are you racing that 39hp qaud at ? We can see if that dyno sheet makes a differrence. We are racing the 22nd and 23rd if you want to bring it down . If you dare to show up. Witech, Cannondale27 and Timbo have been great, they have helped me thoughout this build of this qaud. These guys put more into cannondales than anybody I know. You should be around these guys if they can't find a part they make one. Everybody should be thanking them for all the input they put in. They never hold any info back on how to build better parts or anything. Witech took parts off his qaud so I could race, Timbo gave me parts to try and Steve took a day off of work to help me out. So DON'T be bad mouthing these guys. I am a average rider but the only qaud that could even keep up with mine on the ice was a pro rider D Rath. And if we wouldn't of spun a fly wheel it would have been a great race to the end. 60 hp is just around the corner for these guys so we better start thinking what we want after that. Thanks Steve , John and Timbo for all the help !!!!! Anybody bad mouthing these guys for anything is just plain stupid !
Neil
Hey ******, where are you racing that 39hp qaud at ? We can see if that dyno sheet makes a differrence. We are racing the 22nd and 23rd if you want to bring it down . If you dare to show up. Witech, Cannondale27 and Timbo have been great, they have helped me thoughout this build of this qaud. These guys put more into cannondales than anybody I know. You should be around these guys if they can't find a part they make one. Everybody should be thanking them for all the input they put in. They never hold any info back on how to build better parts or anything. Witech took parts off his qaud so I could race, Timbo gave me parts to try and Steve took a day off of work to help me out. So DON'T be bad mouthing these guys. I am a average rider but the only qaud that could even keep up with mine on the ice was a pro rider D Rath. And if we wouldn't of spun a fly wheel it would have been a great race to the end. 60 hp is just around the corner for these guys so we better start thinking what we want after that. Thanks Steve , John and Timbo for all the help !!!!! Anybody bad mouthing these guys for anything is just plain stupid !
Neil
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cannondale27
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QUOTE (wanablaze @ Jul 8 2006, 08:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why do the Cannondale power curves always plateau, only to rise again?
Every Cdale dyno I've seen has that point where hp flattens then shoots back up. Look at the 7k rpm area of the charts. Pistons, cranks, cams, etc do not seem to smooth out the dip. What would cause this? Airbox design?
Every Cdale dyno I've seen has that point where hp flattens then shoots back up. Look at the 7k rpm area of the charts. Pistons, cranks, cams, etc do not seem to smooth out the dip. What would cause this? Airbox design?
I know what you mean.That is wierd.We have to remember also that these have 3dmapping.In other words the maps we make are where the ECU takes over from.All inputs are used.It may just be that we cant do anything about that unless a new HEX is made.Sure would like to send a stroker to OPtimum for the full shebang.Was offered to us if you remember.Probably $ though.
The entire point of the harley injectors was to get more fuel in easier. And more fuel/air does not always mean you are using it the most effecient power wise. So you can pretty easily see something with a "better" design yield more power from less. Now why bash on them?
Let them experiment with the setups. How does it hurt anyone? I haven't seen anyone out there selling these setups or telling anyone they must use them. Heck, Tim has even said that you have no reason to even mess with the harleys if you have anything below the 468. And even at that point you should use the AFR to determine if you need to go to bigger injectors.
You can skin the cat many different ways. Edit the base map, increase the regulated fuel pressure, bigger injectors. All have their own positives, negatives, and limitations.
Let them experiment with the setups. How does it hurt anyone? I haven't seen anyone out there selling these setups or telling anyone they must use them. Heck, Tim has even said that you have no reason to even mess with the harleys if you have anything below the 468. And even at that point you should use the AFR to determine if you need to go to bigger injectors.
You can skin the cat many different ways. Edit the base map, increase the regulated fuel pressure, bigger injectors. All have their own positives, negatives, and limitations.
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We may have to run that quad again with the harley injectors back in. I got a call from cdale55 and it has the old snap rev hesitation problem.What was Acarli's fix for that?
Remenber when we first started making the strokers, we assumed they would want more fuel throughout the spectrum so we added 5% more fuel throughout. We later learned the engines only wanted more fuel at 5000 rpm's and over and I ended up lowering the fuel amount back to stock under this rpm range. When 27 dyno'd it, he lowered it a bit more in a few places. However, I found that I still had to lower the offset too low (.50??) to get it to run right and then tried to richen the flow to compensate since the offset started to lean me out all across the board.......That was all last summer. Clearly more air was needed or we needed to lean the map out more in the lower rpms. This year, I added the boomer intake with K&N and bored out the horn. This allowed me to uncrease the offset to about .80!! This took nearly all the hesitation out and I got rid of the rest by adjusting the leakage to .50. anyone that uses the boomer intake can attest that it definitely allows for more air making more power. The quad absolutely rips!
I'm saving now to have Tim make me a 505 engine once they are perfected. Now that we have the basic fuel figured out in the maps, I'd like to try out some other timing settings from stock maps to see how they perform. I also need to drop the TPS to 130...still have it at 110.