QUOTE (jwheat @ Feb 1 2007, 01:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LOL Good answer.
I've been thinking about this today and my next question concerns Adam and Eve being the first humans and the progenitors of the human race. How did everyone escape the problems of inbreeding? Why are we not all mentally handicapped, missing a limb, or have ears like Prince Charles? Prince Charles could be the missing link.Plus after a few generations of inbreeding, you would most likely produce sterile offspring and that would be the end.
When Adam and Eve were created they had Perfect DNA, no mutations, no predisposed genetic defect, ribovirus, etc. At the time that they populated the Earth there would have been no mutations to speak of. We don't know how how it happened actually, who breed with whom outside of the genelogys(sp) recorded. In the Bible Old Testament, they lived for hundreds of year. Could be due to lack of pollution, good base DNA, etc.
After man sin (Adam was standing there with Eve) corruption began. After Noah, God started repopulating the earth, same thing, but after so many years genetic mutation, started stacking the sequence and the birth defect started. This would also apply to animals.
I have a basic understanding of DNA, mutations and laymans at best. I have read a couple of books. The interesting thing is the Mircodal DNA is traced though the female genes. In a Discover Channel special they found that Gene in every different race on earth. I think they called it the EVE Gene. I can look it up if you would like.
This question also applies to the animals that Moses gathered and placed in the ark. Covered above.
Since any type of radiation degredation dating is questionable in your opinion, what would you say if the Shroud of Turin or the Spear of Destiny were carbon-dated and found to be exactly as old as the Bible claims? Would the carbon-dating be suspect then? Yes, you can't stand on a fence if is either good for both groups or bad for both. The same argument. it's like shooting a bullet out of a gun along a parallel line with the ground...... we know how fast the bullet travels and we know how much force gravity will apply to it , so we can figure where it will eventually strike the ground within a reasonable distance.That is the key word. The Bible or anything else we have so far encountered tells of any unreasonable or extraordinary force that might have changed the degredation time of radioactive isotopes beyond what has been recorded. Science allows a fairly wide margin of error in these calculations and any change outside of that margin would have to be extraordinary.
If they didn't throw out the conflicting data, I do Fiber Optic measurements all the time. I "Know" what I'm doing and what I am measuring. Almost every test I run there will be Data Points outside of the expected range. So each of these Data Points need to be evaluated to ensure a "Good" test. Equipment- LASER, Power Meters, Connecors, Polarazation, PMD, PDL, etc.(those are actual optical measurements look them up if you need your head to spin.) need to be examined to determine the results. Are there times when I cannot explain a couple of points, yup. What do we (my Boss) and I do, throw them out. Now if I make my living proving Evolution(disproving Creation) and I have data points outside of what I'm looking for or expecting, what do we do with them. Is this on a conscience level, maybe, maybe not. Do they do experiments to find a preconceved idea of what to find. YES. I look at the way some of them present the data and find the holes. I could be wrong.
The Bible states for a fact that several miracles have happened in a grandiose scale....... what miracles (in your opinion) to match that scale have happened in the last couple of hundred years?
Isreal becoming a country. Isreal has not been a country in 1900 years. After WWII, after the Holocast, the Jews were givin their land back. This was foretold in the Bible. The Jews have returned to their land and continue to. The Six-Day War (Arabic: حرب الأيام الستة, ħarb al‑ayyam as‑sitta ; Hebrew: מלחמת ששת הימים, Milhemet Sheshet Ha‑Yamim), also known as the 1967 Arab-Israeli War, the Third Arab-Israeli War, Six Days' War, an‑Naksah (The Setback), or the June War, was fought between Israel and the Arab states of Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, and Syria. God won the war using the Jewish military.
Next is to come is a 7 year peace treaty that will say a lot.
Just so you will know for future reference in this conversation, I was baptised as a baby and again as an adult and raised in the Methodist church from birth till present (or almost present). I have tithed as much as anyone I personally know and have kept up all of the vehicles(buses & vans) at my church for several years for free (I own a mechanic shop). 28 months ago my oldest son (18 at the time) was in a car wreck and spent two days in a coma before he died. I have not attended church, participated in church activites, or donated to a church since the funeral. While I have always considered myself a Christian, my beliefs are currently strongly challenged.
Jimbo
Man I feel for you. My younger brother was kill by bone cancer, he died, January 2, 1984. This of course was after a painful 18 month fight. The pain you feel may never go away. After that I quit believing as well, so did my Mom, Dad, Brothers, and Sister. Now, most of us are back right with God.
I don't want to sound like on of Jobs friends, so I'll just pray for you and your family.
By the way.... your making me strain my small brain!! Sorry, Not
.
I've been thinking about this today and my next question concerns Adam and Eve being the first humans and the progenitors of the human race. How did everyone escape the problems of inbreeding? Why are we not all mentally handicapped, missing a limb, or have ears like Prince Charles? Prince Charles could be the missing link.Plus after a few generations of inbreeding, you would most likely produce sterile offspring and that would be the end.
When Adam and Eve were created they had Perfect DNA, no mutations, no predisposed genetic defect, ribovirus, etc. At the time that they populated the Earth there would have been no mutations to speak of. We don't know how how it happened actually, who breed with whom outside of the genelogys(sp) recorded. In the Bible Old Testament, they lived for hundreds of year. Could be due to lack of pollution, good base DNA, etc.
After man sin (Adam was standing there with Eve) corruption began. After Noah, God started repopulating the earth, same thing, but after so many years genetic mutation, started stacking the sequence and the birth defect started. This would also apply to animals.
I have a basic understanding of DNA, mutations and laymans at best. I have read a couple of books. The interesting thing is the Mircodal DNA is traced though the female genes. In a Discover Channel special they found that Gene in every different race on earth. I think they called it the EVE Gene. I can look it up if you would like.
This question also applies to the animals that Moses gathered and placed in the ark. Covered above.
Since any type of radiation degredation dating is questionable in your opinion, what would you say if the Shroud of Turin or the Spear of Destiny were carbon-dated and found to be exactly as old as the Bible claims? Would the carbon-dating be suspect then? Yes, you can't stand on a fence if is either good for both groups or bad for both. The same argument. it's like shooting a bullet out of a gun along a parallel line with the ground...... we know how fast the bullet travels and we know how much force gravity will apply to it , so we can figure where it will eventually strike the ground within a reasonable distance.That is the key word. The Bible or anything else we have so far encountered tells of any unreasonable or extraordinary force that might have changed the degredation time of radioactive isotopes beyond what has been recorded. Science allows a fairly wide margin of error in these calculations and any change outside of that margin would have to be extraordinary.
If they didn't throw out the conflicting data, I do Fiber Optic measurements all the time. I "Know" what I'm doing and what I am measuring. Almost every test I run there will be Data Points outside of the expected range. So each of these Data Points need to be evaluated to ensure a "Good" test. Equipment- LASER, Power Meters, Connecors, Polarazation, PMD, PDL, etc.(those are actual optical measurements look them up if you need your head to spin.) need to be examined to determine the results. Are there times when I cannot explain a couple of points, yup. What do we (my Boss) and I do, throw them out. Now if I make my living proving Evolution(disproving Creation) and I have data points outside of what I'm looking for or expecting, what do we do with them. Is this on a conscience level, maybe, maybe not. Do they do experiments to find a preconceved idea of what to find. YES. I look at the way some of them present the data and find the holes. I could be wrong.
The Bible states for a fact that several miracles have happened in a grandiose scale....... what miracles (in your opinion) to match that scale have happened in the last couple of hundred years?
Isreal becoming a country. Isreal has not been a country in 1900 years. After WWII, after the Holocast, the Jews were givin their land back. This was foretold in the Bible. The Jews have returned to their land and continue to. The Six-Day War (Arabic: حرب الأيام الستة, ħarb al‑ayyam as‑sitta ; Hebrew: מלחמת ששת הימים, Milhemet Sheshet Ha‑Yamim), also known as the 1967 Arab-Israeli War, the Third Arab-Israeli War, Six Days' War, an‑Naksah (The Setback), or the June War, was fought between Israel and the Arab states of Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, and Syria. God won the war using the Jewish military.
Next is to come is a 7 year peace treaty that will say a lot.
Just so you will know for future reference in this conversation, I was baptised as a baby and again as an adult and raised in the Methodist church from birth till present (or almost present). I have tithed as much as anyone I personally know and have kept up all of the vehicles(buses & vans) at my church for several years for free (I own a mechanic shop). 28 months ago my oldest son (18 at the time) was in a car wreck and spent two days in a coma before he died. I have not attended church, participated in church activites, or donated to a church since the funeral. While I have always considered myself a Christian, my beliefs are currently strongly challenged.
Jimbo
Man I feel for you. My younger brother was kill by bone cancer, he died, January 2, 1984. This of course was after a painful 18 month fight. The pain you feel may never go away. After that I quit believing as well, so did my Mom, Dad, Brothers, and Sister. Now, most of us are back right with God.
I don't want to sound like on of Jobs friends, so I'll just pray for you and your family.
By the way.... your making me strain my small brain!! Sorry, Not
.Responses in red.
Smitty
QUOTE (Psychosis @ Feb 1 2007, 01:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That's one thing I've always questioned and have never been given a reason except for "god wouldn't allow those problems at the start of creation". Would like to hear an answer from somebody who's quite versed in their faith.
Me to...
Smitty
Good job explaining Smitty! I agree with most every thing you've posted. It seems to me that belief in God can be reduced to accountability. If you say there is a God , that He created us ,then we are accountable to Him for our actions , If we deny there is a God , we can live our lives as we please , accountable only to our fellow man , whose standards are on a sliding scale. For me it comes down to evolution, it takes more faith to believe that than creation.