Rebuild Testing

Message

sillysspeed · #51 Post by **sillysspeed** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:15 am

QUOTE

Originally posted by cdrookie
could it maybe be a piston/wristpin issue? something could be slightly out of line thus putting undo stress and binding on the big end bearing? i don't know how far back these failurers date to but it seems like just recently(last few months) all the 450's are dropping dead. is everyone using the same pistons? bad production run? is anyone running a 450 without a winky crank? [/B]

I have the WWE 450 with the stock crank. It has aprox. 35 hrs on it with no problems. Knock on Wood!!

CdaleRacer0128 · #52 Post by **CdaleRacer0128** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:43 am

you have the stock head, too right?

i'll have the same set up as you noah soon enough, just with an ATK crank, me and jason both are going back to stock heads..

how's your jumpin and racing coming along?

sillysspeed · #53 Post by **sillysspeed** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:56 am

QUOTE

Originally posted by CdaleRacer0128
you have the stock head, too right?

i'll have the same set up as you noah soon enough, just with an ATK crank, me and jason both are going back to stock heads..

how's your jumpin and racing coming along?

yeah stock head... I don't think there is much difference in HP anyway, ATK crank?? did you just get that?

I got a practice track 5 miles from my house now!! It just needs a little TLC. :usa

cannondale27 · #54 Post by **cannondale27** » Sun Jun 06, 2004 2:05 am

It was suggested to me that maybe the crank pin wasnt hardened.Does anyone know the correct Rockwell number for this should be?He said 80.I can test this at work.
In looking at it closer the bearing race and sides are one piece.It was also suggested that there might have been a bearing cage in there.Sure would be nice to know.Havent been able to get a hold of Winky.

NRath · #55 Post by **NRath** » Sun Jun 06, 2004 3:09 am

QUOTE

Originally posted by cannondale27
It was suggested to me that maybe the crank pin wasnt hardened.

In looking at it closer the bearing race and sides are one piece.It was also suggested that there might have been a bearing cage in there.

I'd doubt the pin wasn't hardened. If that wasn't your original crank, it was for someone and it had certainly been ridden before. If it hadn't been hardened, it would have been unusable when Wink rebuilt it. That's obviously just speculation, but everything were saying is pretty much speculation, isn't it. The Rockwell # would tell you. Try PM'ing Kram and 4Strokemadman, maybe they'll see the pm's. Better yet, can't we send e-mails through the forum? Try that.

As for the bearing, more speculation- I don't believe a needle bearing like the one you showed us is going to have a cage. A cylindrical roller bearing, yes, but not a needle bearing. Wink could definitely give the definitive answr on this. Timbomoose could also share what he's seen. He's had them apart, too.

I think you had mentioned crank float. That's definitely a potential culprit in my eyes. There is a spec for crank float after assembly and I've seen that our engines can be out of that spec. I didn't have an indicator handy to find out how far, but I know it was over. This could be shimmed, but it would take some time to figure out where and how much to shim. It would definitely be time well spent. It would probably have to be remeasured on every engine. I wouldn't count on there being a standard number to shim them all to.

cannondale27 · #56 Post by **cannondale27** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 12:53 am

Nrath yep its all speculation at this point.Appreciate your input though.I think there is a spec in manual for pin dia.Maybe Wink turned it down for different rod bearing size?The rod in my crank looked like the old rods except the bearing race was pressed in.The old rods didnt have that race pressed in.I was also told that I was getting a newredesigned Carillo rod.I wonder!
On the stocker motor I put together this weekend I used ballbearing main bearings and I green loctited the crank to the bearings.With stock bearings which have rollers and plastic cages I dont see how you could get rid of any play without putting pressure on those cages.

cannondale27 · #57 Post by **cannondale27** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 12:12 pm

Crankpin looks to be stock size.I did notice in his add it says hardened Rod journal so all I need is a Rockwell number and we will see.

Cannondale Crank- Completely rebuilt. We disassemble your stock crank, rework it to much higher standards than stock. Comes with Custom Carillo Rod, with bearing race insert, 14,000 RPM Rod Bearing, Side thrust washers, Hardened Rod Journal, Balanced for choice of stock 95mm or 450, 97mm piston. Ball Bearing main bearings recommended.

cannondale27 · #58 Post by **cannondale27** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 12:09 am

Well I got ahold of Winky and we worked out a deal.He says there was a cage on the rod bearing.He also says the crankpin is rehardened to 28 rockwell.His new way of doing things is a different bearing and pin along with the oiling mods.I will check hardness tonight.
I plan to give him another shot.Might not ever really know what caused my crankfailure but he seems to be trying to cover all the bases so it is time to move on and get the job done and go out and have some more fun.Rebuild II reports will be done just like last time.Keepin my fingers crossed.

Ryanstones · #59 Post by **Ryanstones** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 12:17 am

good to hear neither of you are giving up 27! Good luck!

thumbs up for Big Winky!

sillysspeed · #60 Post by **sillysspeed** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:46 am

Good luck!! :usa