Atheism????
QUOTE (azcannon @ Jan 29 2007, 02:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I say you should only go to a church where the preacher drives a car worth at least $50,000.00 otherwise they don't bring enough in tithe/offering and they are a crappy religion salesmen - so there is no way you will go to heaven.
Smitty where is the low down on the 7th day adventists/church of god?
And catholics? is it still not a good time to be a altar boy ?
Where are the evangelist's when you need them , my grandma's got a twenty they don't know about
Smitty where is the low down on the 7th day adventists/church of god?
And catholics? is it still not a good time to be a altar boy ?
Where are the evangelist's when you need them , my grandma's got a twenty they don't know about
Azcannon,
Sorry I didn't call you while in town. I will be at the Glamis Ride in Feb. Now on to your points.
Some pastors will not drive a car that cost over $40,000. In most churches the Elders set the pay scale not the pastors.
God doesn't need to be sold. He needs men of God to act like men of God.
QUOTE (Psychosis @ Jan 29 2007, 02:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
When it comes to this subject, it just gets out of hand quick. I myself choose to not give a **** about any of it. I live my life by what "I" know is right and what I think I should strive to be. I was brought up around constant preaching and it bothered the **** out of me. I've been told I will fail at everything for not going to church by people but I've had more successes than failures in life.
As one of the youngest members on here and not too far out of high school I've seen the way youth in America are becoming today. Today or atleast in the area and surrounding areas where I grew up I'd speculate that more than 50% of the kids I've known are nonreligious. It's become a thing of "coolness" anymore. Sad, but true. Most will claim it, join faith-following clubs, etc, but will tell you the truth when not around people they want to look good in front of.
I don't say that for anykind of arguement. I simply say it b/c the idea of religion is seeming to lose its way. I think religion is a great thing itself but I just don't have the desire to bother w/it. If it gets you to do great things and promote a healthy and nice life, great for you. Just remember that not everyone else wants to be the same. Instead of promoting religion in other countries, how about the groups like CBN get together and help out people in this country? My thoughts.
As one of the youngest members on here and not too far out of high school I've seen the way youth in America are becoming today. Today or atleast in the area and surrounding areas where I grew up I'd speculate that more than 50% of the kids I've known are nonreligious. It's become a thing of "coolness" anymore. Sad, but true. Most will claim it, join faith-following clubs, etc, but will tell you the truth when not around people they want to look good in front of.
I don't say that for anykind of arguement. I simply say it b/c the idea of religion is seeming to lose its way. I think religion is a great thing itself but I just don't have the desire to bother w/it. If it gets you to do great things and promote a healthy and nice life, great for you. Just remember that not everyone else wants to be the same. Instead of promoting religion in other countries, how about the groups like CBN get together and help out people in this country? My thoughts.
Psychosis,
Thanks for you thoughts, May I ask you a couple of questions? I will reply to some of your statements as well.
1. For someone that doesn't care why the expletives? Most people use them when they feel strongly about something.
2. What is right by your standards?
3. Before you throw God out of the equation, see if the people that told you the negative stuff, if they can support their position with the Bible. As far as I know, you are to Honor you parents.
4. Coolness of religion??? In the Bible we are told to be religious about two things - Widows and Orphans - that's is. Religion is man trying to get to God, Christianity is God (Jesus) coming down to us.
5. There are lots of hypocrites everywhere - Sports, School, Home, etc. This is not really an argument for Atheism, that just life.
6. Religion - is a bad thing unless it has to do with what? Widows and Orphans. Looking back though History you will find religion responsible for a lot of bad things. These things were not what is talked about doing in the Bible. Big, really Big, Huge difference.
7. I agree with you about doing more in this country. That's one of the reasons I started Gamers Care.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Smitty
Smitty Well it would have been nice to say hi to you but I couldn't have left work anyways - very busy day .
Being that so many people have spoke up I will also. organized religion is a joke to me , god doesn't have a bank account and thats what it is all about to me.
I believe you can't prove God/ Jesus's existence and you don't have too . I am happy as long as everyone is allowed to follow whatever faith they want and I can tell any religion salespeople I am not interested. I like any and all Alien theory's because I am a big sci fi nut so I will respect the beliefs of others and hope to meet an alien one day who can tell me if my forefathers were monkey's.
Being that so many people have spoke up I will also. organized religion is a joke to me , god doesn't have a bank account and thats what it is all about to me.
I believe you can't prove God/ Jesus's existence and you don't have too . I am happy as long as everyone is allowed to follow whatever faith they want and I can tell any religion salespeople I am not interested. I like any and all Alien theory's because I am a big sci fi nut so I will respect the beliefs of others and hope to meet an alien one day who can tell me if my forefathers were monkey's.
QUOTE (Happyboy @ Jan 29 2007, 05:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It took fear for us to believe in god. Man needed a way to explain the unknown as well as his own existence, God is that explanation. That is where the earliest religious gods came from. Man created religion, not the other way around.
I hate to say it but I believe you are mistaken. God walked with Adam and Eve in the cool of the evening. The first mention of fear was after they had sinned and ate from the tree of wisdom. Before that they were innocent. God explains our existence in the Bible, and our purpose.
Early religions who knows what they thought and why. Man did create religion, the first mention in the Bible is the tower of Babel. Man tried to reach up to God. God established a relationship with his creation, see Adam and Eve comment above, after we blew it, well look around you see what happened.
Thanks for your comments, any additional thoughts?
Smitty
QUOTE (RonDK @ Jan 29 2007, 08:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I hate how Christianity is judged by the people who follow it. People against it desperately try to pick small tads of bad info against it. I remember a debate like this on some other forum and almost every point against the religion had something to do with someone that used Christianity to do something bad...like collect money from people for personal gain. Thats like judging a Cannondale by the people who ride it...you can't control who does or doesn't. I mean hey, I don't get to choose who follows a religion, so why should I get put down by others that set a bad example.
I do agree that the converting stuff gets annoying, and I am a Christian too. From my experiences in life, most people find God through an experience or a life changing event, not some person forcing a completely different lifestyle on you. I never try to convert people for the reason that it does more harm than good. Seems like most people make up their mind on their religion in their teens and thats when that rebellious, 2+2=4, attitude kicks in. When someone tells you something almost threatening like you are going to heII for not believing, you want to think the opposite. I would rather not force religion on someone so it can always sit in the back of their minds rather than kill any thought of being a Christian. To me, it's never too late to believe in God (except when you are dead) so why force it at an early age when a lot of things are going on.
I do agree that the converting stuff gets annoying, and I am a Christian too. From my experiences in life, most people find God through an experience or a life changing event, not some person forcing a completely different lifestyle on you. I never try to convert people for the reason that it does more harm than good. Seems like most people make up their mind on their religion in their teens and thats when that rebellious, 2+2=4, attitude kicks in. When someone tells you something almost threatening like you are going to heII for not believing, you want to think the opposite. I would rather not force religion on someone so it can always sit in the back of their minds rather than kill any thought of being a Christian. To me, it's never too late to believe in God (except when you are dead) so why force it at an early age when a lot of things are going on.
I agree with you, excellent point. Find out what God say in the Bible and base your answers on what's there and not what people do. People fail, Christians are NOT perfect.
I have never to my knowledge forced someone to convert to anything. Personally I like to ask question and attempt to clear up misunderstanding of what is in the Bible. Of course anything someone tells you, you should check out the Bible for yourself and find out if it's in there and in context.
Wow, what a story, Bad things happen to good people(this would include some Christians) God will use it for good.
Smitty
The only thing that's ever gotten me was the bible itself. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it written by roughly 15 people over a period of like 1000yrs, though mostly by Paul I wanna say. It's been awhile since I studied religions. Feel free to flame if incorrect on those numbers though. Just trying to remember and those rang a bell.
I don't care how religious a person is, if my best friend wrote a book and called it the bible saying it was the word of god I'd laugh my *** off at him regardless of how religious or spirtited he was.
I don't care how religious a person is, if my best friend wrote a book and called it the bible saying it was the word of god I'd laugh my *** off at him regardless of how religious or spirtited he was.
QUOTE (haydug @ Jan 29 2007, 04:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So, how to we determine if the preacher is in it for "god" or for personal gain? I've seen way to many people who preach at day, then drink away at night. Is that religion. All I have to do is abide by god while in his house? Why do the religious nuts continue to knock on my door and try to push their "correct" theory down my throat. You basically have to slam the door shut to get them to leave. Now that someone is a Christian, can I still hang out with them,and ride bikes? Some churches say "no".. Hmmmmm. Do you know for a fact that God does indeed exist? Who's gonna be the next president?
Doug,
Excellent questions, may I take a stab at them.
1. If the preacher or church teach or do things that cannot be supported Biblically. It's ok to have a drink, it's not OK to get drunk. Yes, it may be religion. Religion is man made, usually to modified to fit ones own idea of god. (little g on purpose)
2. I believe that people(myself included) fail at what they profess to be several times a day. My claim is that I'm a Christian, I follow Jesus Christ, based on what the Bible teaches. Several times a day, I may not act like one. I am Human and have all the Human problems. The idea is Growth, not perfection.
3. Religious nuts - Most people door knocking are Jehovah Witnesses, they have to log so many hours going door to door and passing out the "Awake" magazine. The hours are logged at the Kingdom hall. This group denies that Jesus is God (John 1:1) They believe he is the Angle Michael - of course that's not in the Bible but it doesn't stop them.
4. Riding quads with non-Christian, almost every time I ride, We are supposed to be living a life style that will show them God without talking. Walk the Walk you might say.
5. I don't think any church can support Biblically not to hang out with non-Christians. The ones that do, cannot support that position with the Bible.
6. I know for a fact that God exist. He has reviled himself to me several different ways. One quick one is though Bible Prophecy. I can give you list of almost a hundred if you would like.
7. Hillary
Smitty
QUOTE (Smitty911 @ Jan 29 2007, 11:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I hate to say it but I believe you are mistaken. God walked with Adam and Eve in the cool of the evening. The first mention of fear was after they had sinned and ate from the tree of wisdom. Before that they were innocent. God explains our existence in the Bible, and our purpose.
I tried to resist, but man this crap makes me crazy. I think you have to be incredibly feeble minded to take this crap literally. Come on man! Tree of wisdom? I thought it was a **** apple tree? "In the cool of the evening" How romantic. Maybe god was looking for a threesome?
I'm sorry for saying that. God made me do it!
QUOTE (UpsMan @ Jan 29 2007, 11:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I tried to resist, but man this crap makes me crazy. I think you have to be incredibly feeble minded to take this crap literally. Come on man! Tree of wisdom? I thought it was a **** apple tree? "In the cool of the evening" How romantic. Maybe god was looking for a threesome?
I'm sorry for saying that. God made me do it!
I'm sorry for saying that. God made me do it!
Now THAT'S a response!
QUOTE (haydug @ Jan 29 2007, 06:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You see, this is where it can get out of hand. "use your brain", well sir, I am indeed using my brain, or I wouldn't have queastions.
Riding quads illegally? No, but I was once told by a preacher of a church that I went to I must stop, and to quit hanging out with the non'believers. I MUST attend every sunday morning, sunday evening after a ride wasn't good enough.
Now, nowhere did I say God does NOT exist. What I believe is irrevelant to the situation. I am simply stating a fact. If you are so narrow minded as to not listen to someone and their beliefs, and take what they say into some kind of consideration, then indeed you fall into the catagory of "I am right, you are wrong" crowd.
So, let me know what you got, I'll listen and make up my mind. Do I personally believe in God? If that was your queastion, then yes is the answer. However, every major religion has points worth listening to, and considering if they should have any values or not.
After all, we have Hillory Clinton, so there must be a god!
Riding quads illegally? No, but I was once told by a preacher of a church that I went to I must stop, and to quit hanging out with the non'believers. I MUST attend every sunday morning, sunday evening after a ride wasn't good enough.
Now, nowhere did I say God does NOT exist. What I believe is irrevelant to the situation. I am simply stating a fact. If you are so narrow minded as to not listen to someone and their beliefs, and take what they say into some kind of consideration, then indeed you fall into the catagory of "I am right, you are wrong" crowd.
So, let me know what you got, I'll listen and make up my mind. Do I personally believe in God? If that was your queastion, then yes is the answer. However, every major religion has points worth listening to, and considering if they should have any values or not.
After all, we have Hillory Clinton, so there must be a god!
Doug,
I agree with your opening line, I hope you do have questions, I question my belief almost daily. I'm glad your using your brain, as a Christian I have never had to follow anything on "Blind Faith".
Going to Church won't get you into heaven. Hanging out only with believers, won't get you into heaven. I wouldn't go back to that church, I don't think they can support that statement with the Bible. Here are a few things it says.
1. Believe that Jesus died on the cross to pay for your sin, and was raised on the Third day.
2. Repent from all known sin - ex. If your living with someone who is not your legal wife. move out or get married.
2. Be baptist (full Immersion if your not crippled).
That's is what gets you into Heaven. We are to hang out with fellow Christians, to learn the Bible so we know what were doing. You wouldn't put on a Football uniform, run on the field without knowing what to do would you?
Every major religion has good points, agreed. The major difference between Christianity and ALL other religions is God came to earth to save us in the form of Jesus Christ. All the others, everyone of them, you have to do something to be with god. If you want specifics feel free to ask. If I'm wrong I'm sure someone will correct me.
Having Hillary would prove evolution.
QUOTE (Mjollnir @ Jan 29 2007, 08:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...must...resist urge...to join...discussion...
Your input is welcome as long as it's polite.
Thanks
Smitty
QUOTE (Mjollnir @ Jan 29 2007, 09:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
OK, maybe a little.
J., it is impossible to prove a negative. One cannot prove that something does not exist.
For example. Prove to me that no fruit exists which is shaped like Ronald Reagan's head. Prove that there are no aliens on Mars. You can show me evidence which may indicate that these are true, but it is not proof. Only an affirmative statement can be proven. And any proof you may have that God exists may meet the burden of proof for you, but will not even remotely satisfy the burden of proof that others may have. Unless you have verified photographic evidence?
Atheists, or non-theists, at least the cerebral ones, base their beliefs on a multitude of well thought out and logical arguments. Perhaps the reason some atheists feel they have to tell the world is because of the same reason that many religions prosletyze their own beliefs - they feel that they can make the world a better place by doing so. Or in the case of some (many?) religions, they can make more money or obtain more power by doing so.
(Disclaimer) I make these statements for the sake of discussion, without regard to any personal beliefs. Any personal attacks and I'm gone.
J., it is impossible to prove a negative. One cannot prove that something does not exist.
For example. Prove to me that no fruit exists which is shaped like Ronald Reagan's head. Prove that there are no aliens on Mars. You can show me evidence which may indicate that these are true, but it is not proof. Only an affirmative statement can be proven. And any proof you may have that God exists may meet the burden of proof for you, but will not even remotely satisfy the burden of proof that others may have. Unless you have verified photographic evidence?
Atheists, or non-theists, at least the cerebral ones, base their beliefs on a multitude of well thought out and logical arguments. Perhaps the reason some atheists feel they have to tell the world is because of the same reason that many religions prosletyze their own beliefs - they feel that they can make the world a better place by doing so. Or in the case of some (many?) religions, they can make more money or obtain more power by doing so.
(Disclaimer) I make these statements for the sake of discussion, without regard to any personal beliefs. Any personal attacks and I'm gone.
Thanks for your input. I agree with your statement on fruit. Burden of proof, that's a fun one, who does it rest on. At the end of the day people can still say "I don't get it/see it, feel it, etc.
I would be interested to hear a well thought out atheist or non-theist argument. I'll reserve the use of "I don't know." Somethings we have no knowledge of Biblically or Scientifically.
Thanks
Smitty