Take the Falicon chalange.
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cannondale27
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I agree Happyboy.Nothing really wrong with Falicon.Does have advantage of using stock pistons also.I remember when YFZ's were wreaking crankpins ALOT got cracked when pressing them apart.It got figured out.Required a fixture and heat and no more cracks.Still mystery why they dont have torque of Timbo cranks though.
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cannondale27
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I also wonder how many Falicons have failed?Dont want to give second hand info but little birdy told me of a few.To me it really is insulting that owners of failed cranks wouldnt post about it here.Would also like opportunity to see a failed one.Oh well maybe if I have problems with something I will just sit back and watch everyone else buy more.Not!
[quote name='Happyboy' date='Mar 2 2007, 03:25 PM' post='167396']
Fixing their cranks? Come on now. There is nothing wrong with their cranks. Are they the absolute best design? No. But what is actually wrong with it? Was it the crank's fault it broke? Nope.
[/quote
Well I did the best I could and ended up with the same result as every dynoed falicon. I dont know whats wrong with them. I agreed to do a buildup on this one to see for myself if there really is a power and torque issue. From what the dyno shows we can make more power and almost same torque with a stock crank using the same mods . And a Timbo stroker just plain blows them away with less stroke .
Im just looking at this from a performance standpoint. And the dyno says there there is absolutely something very wrong with them. Why dont we see a falicon motor pulling 34 to 36 ft pounds instead of 29 to 32 that we are getting?
3 of the lines in this chart are the falicons we have dynoed . One is a stock crank. Guess which one has both the highest torque and power?
Fixing their cranks? Come on now. There is nothing wrong with their cranks. Are they the absolute best design? No. But what is actually wrong with it? Was it the crank's fault it broke? Nope.
[/quote
Well I did the best I could and ended up with the same result as every dynoed falicon. I dont know whats wrong with them. I agreed to do a buildup on this one to see for myself if there really is a power and torque issue. From what the dyno shows we can make more power and almost same torque with a stock crank using the same mods . And a Timbo stroker just plain blows them away with less stroke .
Im just looking at this from a performance standpoint. And the dyno says there there is absolutely something very wrong with them. Why dont we see a falicon motor pulling 34 to 36 ft pounds instead of 29 to 32 that we are getting?
3 of the lines in this chart are the falicons we have dynoed . One is a stock crank. Guess which one has both the highest torque and power?
QUOTE
Im just looking at this from a performance standpoint. And the dyno says there there is absolutely something very wrong with them.
Again, something very wrong with them? Come on John, its all about how you say something on this. Something wrong sounds like you are saying they will break, while that isn't the case.
As for them failing....27, I know of one that was in Derno's quad which failed after the 6 hour. They weren't sure what caused it to fail and when sent to falicon they said it was an oiling problem with the quad. But, they did have a drain plug fall out. Heck, it could of been a hardness problem with the pin. It happens. So what if there have been 3 failures of the Falicons. How many are out there running? Failures are part of the game guys. If anything was as bad as the stock crank then it would be a different story. Have any of Tim's cranks had problems? Yup. Its part of the game. Now Tim is wayyyy to nice and fixes their problems every time. Can't say the same about Falicon. They will charge you to fix it but that is what makes their business work...money.
The short rod wasn't their fault so you can't pin that on them.
Now, why does it not put out the same power? Weight maybe? I know when they went into it their goal was to simply put out a new stock crank for people to use to resolve the ripsaw bearing problem. They just happen to make it a stroker for $$ savings on their end. If you guys think it needs a design review then call up Falicon and talk to them. Maybe they will take your feedback positively if you give it to them in that manner rather than telling them their cranks or broken pieces of crap and then sit back and wonder why they don't respond.
Sorry for the rant guys....but at times you are way tooo negative about something that you have no part in. If you want to show the power loss on the Falicon then do it....you don't have to say they are "broken" or that "there is something wrong with them".
And 6 months ago it was why has a falicon never broke 50 hp or 30 ft-lb of torque? Now its why isn't it in the mid 30s and mid 50s. Come on.....be nice!
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cannondale27
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Timbo stroker/Falicon stroker
If owners are satisfied with thier cranks from Falicon then that is all that matters.BUT think about future owners who have a choice.If they dont know the positives and negatives they will not have a informed buying decision.
FALICON ................................................................................
........TIMBO STROKER
Positives(some unproven).................................................................Positi
ves
______________________..........................................................
.______________________________
Balanced supposedly better than balanced stock...............................Balanced run very smooth
Better bearing than ripsaw bearing..................................................Bigger better bearing than Falicon
Bronze bushing rod........................................................................Bronz
e Bushing rod
More HP/torque than stock............................................................More torque and hp(slightly) than Falicon
................................................................................
.....................Cost Much less $ Best warantee ever
NEGATIVES(on some but not all).....................................................NEGATIVES (on some but not all)
_________________________......................................................_
_______________________________
unbalanced(vibration)...........................................................
.........A couple crank halves have cracked
More than .003 out of sync.............................................................Have a Waiting list
Crankplate bearing fit too tight
sloppy fit of drive,timing gear splines
crankpin failures ?unconfirmed Derno,Cannondalerider
Can crack when rebuilding
Short rods on some must use custom piston
Shorter rod than stock even with correct rod(has not proven to be issue)
Price
Feel free to post corrections to this comparison but I think it is fair comparison and folks can decide.Either is WAY better than stock.
If owners are satisfied with thier cranks from Falicon then that is all that matters.BUT think about future owners who have a choice.If they dont know the positives and negatives they will not have a informed buying decision.
FALICON ................................................................................
........TIMBO STROKER
Positives(some unproven).................................................................Positi
ves
______________________..........................................................
.______________________________
Balanced supposedly better than balanced stock...............................Balanced run very smooth
Better bearing than ripsaw bearing..................................................Bigger better bearing than Falicon
Bronze bushing rod........................................................................Bronz
e Bushing rod
More HP/torque than stock............................................................More torque and hp(slightly) than Falicon
................................................................................
.....................Cost Much less $ Best warantee ever
NEGATIVES(on some but not all).....................................................NEGATIVES (on some but not all)
_________________________......................................................_
_______________________________
unbalanced(vibration)...........................................................
.........A couple crank halves have cracked
More than .003 out of sync.............................................................Have a Waiting list
Crankplate bearing fit too tight
sloppy fit of drive,timing gear splines
crankpin failures ?unconfirmed Derno,Cannondalerider
Can crack when rebuilding
Short rods on some must use custom piston
Shorter rod than stock even with correct rod(has not proven to be issue)
Price
Feel free to post corrections to this comparison but I think it is fair comparison and folks can decide.Either is WAY better than stock.
Thats why I said "from a performance standpoint" . I didnt say quality standpoint,durabilty standpoint,failure standpoint.
If I wanted to mention the other issues like Keven's extreme out of balance one, the tight bearing races,sloppy crank gear splines,varing trueness, and the failures that have been kept in the shadows then I would have. But that should be for another thread. This is all about those who are looking to a Falicon for power.
The Falicon I sent back for warranty came back in a timely manner with a minimum of hassle . They just wouldnt tell me what was actually wrong with it and gave me a replacement but thats no matter.
I accepted the chalange to see if the the dyno and seat of the pants driving results were somehow a fluke. Well I treated this engine just like all the other race engines I built and there are the results.
I welcome anyone else to build a falicon engine and show us that these results are not the norm. By all means argue with the dyno results but bring proof.
Going by the up to date results say I get a phone call from some drag racer who's looking to compete with Jap quads that are pushing 35 to 40 pounds of torque and 50 to 60hp what am I to tell them ?
Read the last line in Falicons add.The Knife Rod has two pin-oiler holes in the small end to improve the oiling of the wristpin. We also install a bronze bushing in the small end to prevent gauling. All this adds up to better performance, in a stronger race-ready crank.
If I wanted to mention the other issues like Keven's extreme out of balance one, the tight bearing races,sloppy crank gear splines,varing trueness, and the failures that have been kept in the shadows then I would have. But that should be for another thread. This is all about those who are looking to a Falicon for power.
The Falicon I sent back for warranty came back in a timely manner with a minimum of hassle . They just wouldnt tell me what was actually wrong with it and gave me a replacement but thats no matter.
I accepted the chalange to see if the the dyno and seat of the pants driving results were somehow a fluke. Well I treated this engine just like all the other race engines I built and there are the results.
I welcome anyone else to build a falicon engine and show us that these results are not the norm. By all means argue with the dyno results but bring proof.
Going by the up to date results say I get a phone call from some drag racer who's looking to compete with Jap quads that are pushing 35 to 40 pounds of torque and 50 to 60hp what am I to tell them ?
Read the last line in Falicons add.The Knife Rod has two pin-oiler holes in the small end to improve the oiling of the wristpin. We also install a bronze bushing in the small end to prevent gauling. All this adds up to better performance, in a stronger race-ready crank.
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cannondale27
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