Atheism????

[Mjollnir]

QUOTE (J. Delaney @ Jan 29 2007, 09:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Show me your proof that he doesn't exist and I'll show you my proof that he does.

OK, maybe a little.

J., it is impossible to prove a negative. One cannot prove that something does not exist.

For example. Prove to me that no fruit exists which is shaped like Ronald Reagan's head. Prove that there are no aliens on Mars. You can show me evidence which may indicate that these are true, but it is not proof. Only an affirmative statement can be proven. And any proof you may have that God exists may meet the burden of proof for you, but will not even remotely satisfy the burden of proof that others may have. Unless you have verified photographic evidence?

Atheists, or non-theists, at least the cerebral ones, base their beliefs on a multitude of well thought out and logical arguments. Perhaps the reason some atheists feel they have to tell the world is because of the same reason that many religions prosletyze their own beliefs - they feel that they can make the world a better place by doing so. Or in the case of some (many?) religions, they can make more money or obtain more power by doing so.

(Disclaimer) I make these statements for the sake of discussion, without regard to any personal beliefs. Any personal attacks and I'm gone.

[cannondale27]

One thing I cant understand is some scientists.Isnt the Scientology that wierded out Tom Cruise based on Science?
Well everyday the scientist are learning more things that in turn bring up more questions than answers.They are seeing farther and farther out into space and seeing more and more in the way of Galaxies,Planets,Blackholes and suns.For every advancement to see further there is just more to see.......All I can do as a peon human in such vastness is say there must be a God because what else can explain it all.

[Mjollnir]

QUOTE (cannondale27 @ Jan 29 2007, 01:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

One thing I cant understand is some scientists.Isnt the Scientology that wierded out Tom Cruise based on Science?
Well everyday the scientist are learning more things that in turn bring up more questions than answers.They are seeing farther and farther out into space and seeing more and more in the way of Galaxies,Planets,Blackholes and suns.For every advancement to see further there is just more to see.......All I can do as a peon human in such vastness is say there must be a God because what else can explain it all.

Steve, these discoveries explain a lot. The last few years have seen breakthroughs in physics - string theory comes to mind, which made it possible to mathematically prove that the Big Bang was possible.

So, in answer to your question, physics can explain a lot about the universe. Of course, that doesn't mean that many people could understand the explaination. I can only scratch the surface.

And no, Scientology isn't based on science, it's based on L. Ron Hubbard's fantasy world. As far from science as you can get, unless your idea of science is based on alien spirits living in volcanos and possessing human souls. I **** you not, that is the foundation of Scientology.

Embarasado doesn't mean embarassed in Spanish just because it sounds the same! (It means Pregnant).

Marc

[Mjollnir]

QUOTE (Smitty911 @ Jan 27 2007, 07:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course each of these position may be broken down into some subgroups, but overall I was just wondering:
1. How can someone know God does not exist?
2. How much evidence would it take to change someones mind.
3. What it took for us to believe God exist.

Smitty

As long as I got into this, I might as well give my opinions to your original questions, Smitty...

1. No one can KNOW that God doesn't exist, but one can BELIEVE that God doesn't exist just as one can believe that He does. Just as anyone who states that they know God does exist is actually stating that they believe it, one who states that they know God does no exist is stating his or her belief that way. To state that you KNOW something exists, at least in my opinion, you must be able to prove it beyond doubt. I know the Sun exists because I can see it. I know air exists because I can breathe it. I know electrons exist because science proves it.

2. I suppose that depends on the person. Only answer I have.

3. Again, it depends on the person. Some people were raised that way, others have a life changing experience. I find it interesting that many so called "born again" Christians claim that God or Jesus spoke to them, appeared to them, or otherwise communicated expectiations to them, so they found religion. To me, that is tantamount to proof, but to that person alone, and perhaps to those who have complete trust in that person, should that person share the experience with them.

Marc

[cannondale27]

They do explain alot but man they keep finding more!The physics make it possible to see anomalies that nobody knew existed before.Big Bang was not only possible but is still occuring.Crazy thing is its also happening all over the Galaxy and the universe so what about the big bang that started the entire universe?Just make a guy feel very very small.

Thanks for Scientology explanation.I didnt know.Never read the book.Goes to show you how little a name means!

[Mjollnir]

QUOTE (cannondale27 @ Jan 29 2007, 02:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They do explain alot but man they keep finding more!The physics make it possible to see anomalies that nobody knew existed before.Big Bang was not only possible but is still occuring.Crazy thing is its also happening all over the Galaxy and the universe so what about the big bang that started the entire universe?Just make a guy feel very very small.

Thanks for Scientology explanation.I didnt know.Never read the book.Goes to show you how little a name means!

Indeed, we are very, VERY small. Ever seen the Hubble Ultra Deep Field? It's a picture that Hubble took of a chunk of sky no larger than the head of a pin held at arms length. You want to talk about feeling small? In that picture are over 10,000 GALAXIES. Wrap your head around that. How many galaxies are in the universe if there are 10,000 galaxies contained in a spot on the sky as big as the head of a pin. Each one of those galaxies contains millions, if not billions of stars. Our Milky Way galaxy is estimated to contain 100 billion stars.

Info here: http://hubblesite.org/newscenter/archive/releases/2004/07/

If that's not enough, string theory tells physisists (how the **** do I spell that?) that there may be essentially an infinite number of universes as well.

Marc

[cannondale27]

Saw it.And constantly expanding OR being collapsed into nothing (black holes).I cant see anyone ever being able to come up with a scientific explanation that explains everything.How can you when it is constantly changing.

[hawksd1]

QUOTE (cannondale27 @ Jan 29 2007, 04:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Saw it.And constantly expanding OR being collapsed into nothing (black holes).I cant see anyone ever being able to come up with a scientific explanation that explains everything.How can you when it is constantly changing.

not to mention that every time you look up at all those stars that what you are seeing is already millions if not billions of years old based on the speed of light principle....think about whats happening presently at those stars, and what somebody will be seeing in a few million years from now. blows your mind lol

[jwheat]

QUOTE (J. Delaney @ Jan 29 2007, 11:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Read your Bible! Test what the preacher says against the Word of God. The Lord gave you a brain, so use it.

I don't see anywhere in the Word where it strictly prohibits riding quads or bikes unless your're doing it illegally.

And I am absolutley positive that God (not a god, but THEE God) exists. Show me your proof that he doesn't exist and I'll show you my proof that he does.

Statements like the first one is what causes arguements in discussions like this. You're basically saying that if we had any sense and "used our brains' that we would see things your way. That statement is inflamatory. By your statement, anyone who doesn't agree with you is dumb.

As to your second comment.... I don't remember reading anywhere in any of my Bibles a passage concerning riding quads (legally or illegally).

I agree with Marc on the third comment... you can't prove a negative and the current proof to the positive is not adequate proof for everyone.

Marc...... the string theory only proves mathematically correct back to the instance of the Big bang. It falls short of proving the Big Bang or what happened before it. There is another theory (can't remember the exact name of it at the moment) that when combined with the string theory does indeed prove the Big Bang and what preceeded it. It has to do with the universe being in layers or dimensions. I think it proved that 11 dimensions are possible.

Every religion strives to prove that it is the only true religion often by pointing out half truths or simply changing history to prove their point. Modern Christianity leaves out the fact that there are several books of the Bible that were left out of the current version - these books don't support their current beliefs. They also, like to omit the fact that God was originally worshiped as Yahweh (sp), who was a god of war, and that he was originally part of a pantheon of gods. I'm not picking on Christians, that is just the religion I am most familiar with in this discussion.

Steve, I understand your comment about so many wondrous things being discovered that God must exist to explain it all....... but remember that magic and/or gods were once the answer to everything that people couldn't explain in the past.

Ok, now that I've said that, everyone can jump on me!

[Guy310]

Christianity is about faith. Religion is about faith. And that is where the answer to peoples questions lie. Faith is not needing to know the answers to everything. Everybody is different and we are supposed to be accepting of peoples differences. I am United Methodist because I believe in God and the UM church has very reality based(IMO) beliefs and is fairly laid back. I drink beer, I cuss (more than I should), and I am not perfect. I am accepted anyway. My perception of what I read in The Bible is that no matter what I do on this earth, once I have accepted Jesus Christ as my Savior (through baptism), I will have eternal life. That is what I believe. It is not necessarily right, it is not necessarily wrong. If you study what Jesus was like, he did not favor the rich or the politically connected or the "chosen"people. He used to hang with prostitutes, tax collectors, and lepers. He was not judgmental and we are not supposed to be either. This rant was not to convince anybody that my way is right, just to give insight on why I believe what I believe. Doug, I have heard your story many times from many people. I could never put my faith or trust or belief in someone who tried to give me ultimatums about attending church, etc. That is ridiculous and I can't stand hearing about that crap. I would hope that everyone judges religion like we all want people to judge Dales. Just because one breaks down sometimes, that doesn't mean they are all junk.